Featured Resurrecting 1966 Tiger T100ss

Discussion in 'Builds & Projects' started by DaveQ, Aug 14, 2022.

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  1. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    My head hurts.

    I had made the assumption that the fork parts that I have would be the original 1966 build equipment that was part of the original bike. It isn’t. What I’ve got now looks more like a collection of cast offs from a jumbler’s stall. I was hoping that the majority might be salvageable but it’s not looking good.

    The stanchions looked suspect with a fine coating of rust. They passed the roll test on a flattish surface but cleaning the coating of rust was only partly successful leaving wear marks in the portion where the oil seal registers. But then on checking with my Boys Own Book of Triumph Refurbishment I find that they are of a type that originated in 1968 and should have a ‘shuttle valve’. I actually have the shuttle valves in the bits box but they’ve never been fitted to these legs. The retaining nuts are seized and someone has applied extreme duress to the lower bushes and nut that hold bush and valves in place. The top stanchion chromed nuts also fit the stanchions screw thread which places them post 68.

    One of the oil seal holders (the chrome bit) didn’t want to screw onto the lower leg sliders. The other one worked ok. There is a bit of damage to the top edge of the slider and some rust in both of them. I thought at first that they may have different threads but one worked fine with just cleaning up but it took some judicious work with a sharp point and a rat tailed file to clean out the threads on slider and holder and get them to engage. During the course of all this I noticed that the seal holders have different lips at the top. I don’t yet know if it makes any difference, But that’s for later.

    There is a complete overhaul kit of stanchions, bushes, seals and holders available at a very advantageous price which can circumnavigate all of this. The kit services a ‘66 bike, that’s the one without the shuttle valve, but the only thing is that I don’t know if they’ll all fit in the sliders. As far as I can tell the sliders are supposed to have stayed pretty much without change for that period but having cleaned off the burrs on the lower bushes they seem to be a very loose fit in the sliders whereas I would have thought they should be a sliding fit. I take it that as the seal holders screw onto the sliders they are both the same era, possibly pre 1968 when UNF threads were introduced.

    Otherwise, according to my reading they should be ok. I’m going to try to find a UN bolt to try in the lower wheel spindle clamps which might give an indication if it’s earlier or later threads.

    The devil is in the detail

    Dave

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  2. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    Lower fork legs will take all the later shuttle valve parts as they are better and 66 seal holders are the ones without the top lip as they have the early style rubber boots that have clips holding them on.
     
  3. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    Thanks darkman, that’s a big help. It looks as if I should go for upgrading to the later 68 parts including seal holders. I assume their screw threads will still match the sliders.
    The pic is the bits I assume are the shuttle valve and it’s fittings.

    Dave.

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  4. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

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    Make sure you have the latter lower bearing nuts for lower fork legs as well and you will also req the later top stem nuts as later legs use a different thread as you mentioned before. If you what to keep it original you have to use the early seal holders that have a small bend for the early gaiters with retaining clips as the later ones have a bigger lip that holds the later gaiters.
     
  5. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    It’s nice to get some sort of positive progress so long after starting up this refurb. To some getting the broken lug for the centre stand repaired and the stand fully functioning was, to me, a major part of the whole thing and a bit of a deal breaker if it couldn’t be done. After all, it hardly seems right to go to all the expense getting the bike up and running but still having it unable to stand upright on its own two feet. The stand was of course one of the absent bits from ‘the pile’, probably having been discarded as there wasn’t enough left to bolt it onto. A new stand was relatively easy to come by, at the cost of an arm and a leg, but getting the lug fixed, not so much.

    A couple of years ago I had explored the possibilities of having the lug repaired by a local engineer who knew a thing or two about welding. He was then quite confident that it could be rebuilt without too much of a problem, so he was the first port of call when I set off on this voyage of discovery. Unfortunately phone calls never got answered or his workshop was always locked when I visited so I haven’t been able to make any contact with him. Finding an alternative wasn’t any easier. A second business whose website looked promising went off-air just just as I tried to make contact, and of those I did contact there was a definite reluctance to undertake any welding repair on a cast bracket. Apparently welding cast iron or steel is an uncertain business which can produce a brittle texture to the material, even more likely to shatter than the original and that’s if it takes the weld at all.

    However, one gent did take a look at it and devised a slightly different approach. He’s manufactured a small plate with a welded on boss to replace the stand pivot loop ( the bit that’s broken off). The plate is secured between the main frame and the rear subframe at their lower joint where they abut and by the main frame lower bolts which also pass through the plate. The boss is on the inner surface and is in place, laying beside the broken lug. Effectively it acts as an outrigger for the pivot. This arrangement pushes the rear frame outward by only the thickness of the plate, which is negligible, about 3/16 inch. This doesn’t (or shouldn’t ) effect any alignment as the front and rear forks are mounted to the main frame. I need to find a slightly longer pivot bolt for the right side but otherwise the stand is on and functioning like a good stand should.
     
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  6. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    Centre Stand and Lug.

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  7. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    I’ve adopted a loose plan of action to make some sort of progress with this job. The engine looks like being the biggest task and it’s got a lot of problems. So I’ve decided to concentrate on the frame and cycle parts and play around with the engine as a bit of light relief and try to second guess what bits I’m going to need for the engine.

    I’ve made a start on getting the front forks under way. Sorting out what bits I’ve got that will fit together and get the combination that will give me an uprated set of forks with shuttle valves is proving to be a bit of a handful. Most of the parts I have will have to be replaced though. The stanchions are too rusted but I had hoped to save a few quid by using the bottom bearing nuts, but even they are seized in place and defy all my efforts to release them. Heat, cold, soaking in penetrating fluid and ruining an old socket to make a key hasn’t worked.

    It’s probably just as well though as they look different to the ones listed to replace them. These ones have a flat surface where the restrictor goes, whereas the replacements have a boss on them making them longer. What difference that makes I don’t know but the replacements will have to locate the shuttle valve, so it’s probably better replaced anyway.

    I’ve also tried my hand at repainting part of the headstock and top shrouds. The paint on the top crosspiece looks okay and polished up well. I’ve cleaned off the old grime, flakey paint and surface rust on the other bits, rubbed them down and sprayed with a rust inhibitor primer, then a couple of coats of black using a spray can. They’re not perfect but they look better than they did.

    During all this I’ve been cleaning up the associated bits and pieces and thought that two of the washers I had were from the oil seal holders. It turns out that the correct parts were still nestling in the holders. So the two washers are now unidentified. They are almost exactly the same diameter as the o/seal holder parts, but thicker and with annular grooves in them. I thought they might be sealing rings on the exhaust stubs from the amount of crud that I cleaned off them, but they aren’t listed in the parts book. The mystery deepens.

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  8. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    Great to see more progres :)
     
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  9. surlyone2

    surlyone2 Active Member

    Mar 29, 2022
    154
    43
    New Zealand
    Well done Dave, carry on regardless. The fork bush looks like a twin of the ones on the '70 Tiger I carelessly bought in a million pieces ( the bike, not me .. tho' sometimes .. sometimes ? heh heh ) The same monkey wrench has been used in several other places with unconsidered aplomb it could be said ! Similarly, the forks were from a '67, along with the head and bits 'n' pieces, with the differences you've found, but ..... the later twin leader braked wheel does fit the slightly narrower yolks, just a decent sized bar does the trick .... shame about the gouges in the brake plate, but " Hey .. it's in !! " .. yer gotta laugh, don't yer ... ?? Then there was the 'forward footrests' bar held to the frame with u-bolts, and to make certain it didn't slip, tightened until the frame was severely crushed ... which either didn't work, or to be shure .. to be shure, some clown began his welding apprenticeship on it !! When I get over:sob: :sob::sob: I'll tell you about all the stripped threads in the head and why it's not really good practice to screw in the next size up metric bolts ... hint .. (it tends to break off bits of castings). My parts man/ longtime mate (who actually sold me this ... this ...) thought it was all quite funny and well deserved kismet for the way I had treated the '59 Bonnie back in the dark ages !!! Correct I suppose, but being built in the first batch of 199 counted for nothing then ... haha .. ha.. sob
     
  10. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    HI Surlyone2. Thanks for the encouragement, it’s appreciated. :)

    I’m going to plead ‘not guilty’ to the monkey wrench marks though, as they are just evidence of some prior, unsuccessful attempt, in a dim and distant past, to part those b****y nuts. Strut ‘n nut seem to be inseparable and it looks like they’re going to have to stay that way as I’ve spent enough time on them. (Not sure if they’re the right ones anyway.

    It’s been a learning curve so far, I know a lot more about ‘cycle threads’ than I did, but I’m sure I’m going to get a few more curved balls thrown at me yet. Here’s looking at the new, shiny plated studs fitted to the crankcase halves that may, or may not fit the cylinder block, and the repaired exhaust stub in the head that comes out at the wrong angle.

    Hey ho… Onwards! :confused:
     
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  11. surlyone2

    surlyone2 Active Member

    Mar 29, 2022
    154
    43
    New Zealand
    It's called " Character Building " ... excuse me for a bit " :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: " It does grow a different/obtuse way of looking at problem solving .. E.G .. only around an hour, and a little persuading with a (smallish) hammer to assemble a pedestal fan mummy- bear brought home, after having a good laugh at the instructions printed by those helpful people in China and then throwing them in the fire. Must race ... new owner of Sportster should be here in 7 minutes according to him and I need to make it look why I haven't sorted what would be a small problem on a normal bike ( true !!!!! ) :worried::worried::worried::worried: ... ahhh, to hell with him .. :)
     
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  12. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    Character building… ah yes.

    Personally I found a great help has been the little ‘gadget’ I picked up at the last auto jumble I went to. :)

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  13. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    I spent this last Saturday morning at a bike Autojumble having a look around to see what was on offer and in particular for a couple of parts for the bike.

    One of the parts I’d like to get a hold of is the r/h fork slider. The one I have has a small nick in the top lip against which the upper bearing seats. It’s not extensive and is only across the top two threads so it’s not compromising its function, but if I could find a cleaner one I’d probably replace it. Trouble is, they seem to be like hens teeth. I was at the previous months sale as well and couldn’t find anything like that model slider.

    That is until I spotted an almost complete set of forks that looked as if they might fill the bill, although they could have been a few years later than the ones I need. The gaiters and the top shrouds were missing and the stanchions and bolts were as rusty as the ones I’m having to replace. It turned out that they had already been sold to someone with an ‘early bird’ ticket who had gone away to get sufficient cash for the deal. On enquiring the cost they had been sold for an eye watering amount of over £300. I guess that if I really needed the part I might have made an offer but it wouldn’t have been anywhere near that figure. On the other hand if I was desperate, who knows???

    Don’t you just love it when a problem solves itself? Playing around with the pile of bolts, nuts and studs that came with the bike pile, they are gradually resolving themselves into two new piles, identified and unidentified. Now the engine cylinder head bolts are easily recognisable by their elongated heads but I have only three of the four originals, so I had already settled for fitting new ones when it comes to the engine rebuild.

    I also have a pile of unidentified, brand new and beautifully plated nuts, bolts etc. I’m not altogether happy with the new bolts as although they look pretty enough, almost all of them are a tighter fit in the holes that they occupy than the originals. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing but there’s no wriggle room that I’d have with the originals. In fact one head bolt wouldn’t go into the hole at all. On measuring them they are only about 2 to 3 thou thicker than the originals and judicious clearing out of the hole in the head got it to engage.

    But this morning I cleaned down the frame using a degreaser (bought at the auto-jumble) and my power washer and found a bolt holding the top of the rear frame had a fairly recognisable head. I don’t know how I missed it before but sure enough it didn’t go all the way through and on removal it is the missing head bolt. On top of that while looking through the piles of new bolts there’s a stud with two nuts that fits the frame exactly at that point and it’s taped to two other bolts that fit the lower rear frame mountings where the footrests mount. So that was a win!

    Dave
     
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  14. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    lol

    thats how it is with these things.

    50 percent rational mechanics and 50 percent consulting the oracle of delphi
     
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  15. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    I had the thought that I would try to get the forks refurbed, finished and screwed onto the bike by Christmas. With that in mind and having finally (I thought), got my head around the transition from a set of 1966 forks to a ‘68 set, complete with a functioning shuttle valve and different threads, ordered up the remaining parts I would need. A major outlay for new stanchions, seals, bushes and eventually, the bottom bearing retaining nuts.

    As recounted earlier I had thought to save a few pounds by reusing the bottom bearing nuts which on the post ‘68 model retain not only the bush to the stanchion but the whole shuttle valve within it. The cost of the two nuts amount to about £24. Not much of a saving in the overall scheme of things but worth a bit of time spent to get them off the legs. These nuts have a bit of a reputation for being difficult to remove, and mine were no exception. They remained resolutely in place, impervious to my efforts with penetrating oil, heat, cold, modified sockets and general abuse. In the end I gave them best and ordered two new ones.

    On placing the parts order the stanchions and one nut immediately went onto back order while the remainder of the list was despatched. After about two weeks there was still no sign of the parts in transit but the back ordered parts became available and followed on. The back ordered parts arrived in two days with still no sign of the first consignment. Of course one of the first things anyone might do is to try the new nut fit to the new stanchion, and of course, it didn’t fit!

    The nut wouldn’t go into its hole any more than half a turn before locking up solid. I cleaned out the threads all round, checked the tpi which was 28 tpi as it should be.

    Tried the nut in the old stanchion top nut thread, which should be the same and it wouldn’t fit there either. So, I had another go at the old nuts to get them out and compare the threads. This time with a cold chisel, a blowtorch and a bit more commitment. At last they budged.

    Checking the threads everything seemed in order but the new nut still wouldn’t go in the newly vacated stanchion holes. However, on miking up the outside diameter of the nut threads the new nut is some 10 thou wider than the old. It’s simply too wide and the old nuts fit the new stanchions perfectly. So it’s back to finding at least one nut. It’ll be interesting if the original parts order turns up as presumably the nut in that would probably be from a different batch. Unless of course I’m missing something here?

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  16. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    So the ‘missing’ parts delivery turned up on Friday. All the bits and pieces for the front fork rebuild, bushes, seals and most importantly one lower bush retaining nut. The package was posted on the 5th December and has taken almost exactly a month to be delivered. Back ordered stanchions and the other lower nut from the same order made it here faster.

    What with that and Christmas the bike repairs have rather gone onto the back burner. I have however filled in with cleaning up various fork parts. I’d used the power washer to clean the dried sludge out of the lower sliders and looked at the inner surface of the tubes. As expected that revealed some corrosion on the inside faces and pitting, especially on the right hand one. Weirdly, the hexagonal imprint of the restrictor cone can also be vaguely seen on the inside of the bottom end cap, at least proving that these sliders come from a post ‘68 set of forks. What I can’t get my head around though is that the shuttle valves, that should have been held in the stanchions by the bottom nuts, seem to not have been fitted to the stanchions. How these forks had any damping effect when in use I really don’t know.



    Anyway, to clean up the inner faces I wrapped the end of a piece of wooden broom handle with a rag and then around that, a strip of fine wet & dry paper to get down to the bottom of the sliders. After rinsing out I took off the wet/dry paper and loaded the rag with Solvol Autosol chrome polish and worked on the finish as best I could. After an hour or so it seems to have cleaned up fairly well but of course the pitting still remains. Next step seems to be that I’ll have to fit the new bushes and try them out for wear.



    There’s also a bit of rust pitting on the underside of the main frame tubes from stone chipping under the engine area. Generally the frame paintwork is quite good and I don’t think it’s been repainted or powder coated before. It seems to be original and except for the above mentioned it scrubs up quite well. At any rate I don’t intend to repaint the whole thing so I’ve rubbed back the chipped paintwork and today treated the metal with a rust inhibiting primer. As you no doubt can now see, this isn’t going to be ‘concours’ job, but I can only hope to get it looking fairly respectable.

    Incidentally, the nut that arrived in the ‘delayed’ original package fits the new and the old stanchions perfectly and tightens down under finger pressure only. I only need now to get the dud replaced and we’re in business.

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  17. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    Good news on the fork parts arriving :)
     
  18. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    Yes. I’ve got most of the stuff I need now. But as well as the replacement bearing nut I’ve got a few bits to get yet so as to be able to hang the forks on the frame. :party: Mostly the steering damper stuff and gaiters which didn’t come with the pile.:scream:
     
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  19. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    Not a great deal of progress at the moment. It’s absolutely freezing in the garage where I’m working on the bike. I manage about a fully muffled up half hour at a time, then back indoors for hot tea and biscuits before another round. So progress is slow and it’s not helped that up to today I’ve been waiting for the replacement fork bottom bush nut to get the fork legs assembled.

    Still, I’ve pretty much finished tarting up the rust bits on the underside of the frame bottom tubes. But you know how it is when you get that bit finished and in the meanwhile you find another bit that could do with attention. A bit more scraping and flatting and rust inhibitor on the underside of the main frame cross tube, then on the rear swinging arm ends… and so on. Perhaps I should have gone the whole hog after all. Nevertheless it seems to have come out rather well, considering.

    I’ve done a dry run on the assembly of the headstock and forks to the frame. I had to warm up the frame headstock to drift out the bearing tracks for the forks, clean up the seatings and removed the old crusty grease from inside. The old stuff looks quite black, it may be an old molybdemen grease, and there’s a lot of it in the headstock tubes. At any rate it gets everywhere but I’ve now got most of it out. I suppose it’ll do no harm to leave the last wipings on the inside for some sort of protection.

    The old bearing tracks came out fairly easily but I had to work on the seats to remove a couple of burrs and a bit of weld splutter that looked as if it might prevent the track from seating properly. After that it was fairly easy to warm up the headstock and chill the new tracks to drift them into place using the edge of the old tracks to get them right home.

    Trying a practice run at assembling the new stanchions to the yokes with the other bits in place seems to show that I’m going to have a bit of a job getting it all together while getting the stanchions through the tight bit. There’s a tool for that apparently in the form of a puller that pulls the stanchion up through the hard bit. That’s over £30 for the one job. There’s also a cheaper version using an old broom handle screwed into the top nut threads. Having looked around for a suitable broom that I can rob I’ve found that the thickness of broom handles these days are not what they were. The only wooden one I have is too thin to engage with the threads. All the rest of likely brooms and rakes around the house are plastic anyway. No doubt I can find a suitable one somewhere but I’ve taken the easy route and ordered up a kit which covers a number of options on various models. I’ve justified it by telling myself that if I ever get this thing finished I’ve still got the Bonnie that’s going to need some TLC in that area at a later date.

    One of the things that wasn’t in ‘the Pile’ was the steering damper. Just by happenstance I came across a Triumph embossed damper knob together with a couple of its associated bits at one of the jumbles I went to. I took a chance and bought it although I didn’t know whether it was the right one or if it would fit. By luck, it does fit although the anchor plate it came with is wrong. I’ve also now got all of the parts to fit it and complete the forks.

    The new anchor plate has I slightly shorter pair of legs to the frame fitting. It also has a hole in one of the legs as if something should be bolted to it but I can’t find a clear enough photo of that area to determine what it is. The other thought is that it’s a guide hole for routing a cable or wiring that comes from the handlebar area. I just can’t wait to find out.

    The replacement lower fork bush nut that I’m waiting for came today. That doesn’t fit either.

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  20. DaveQ

    DaveQ Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2022
    108
    83
    Surrey. England
    During the clean up of the steering head parts I had in passing noticed a small screw through the lower lug that passed through to the central stem with the end jutting into the central post. It didn’t seem to be doing very much so I had assumed that it was something to do with the original assembly of those two parts, likely holding them in alignment when they were brazed together(?) Checking the workshop manual doesn’t mention it at all while the parts list is marginally more helpful describing it as a ‘Locating Pin’. It was rusted and seized in position so although I’d tried releasing fluid I hadn’t been able to get it out on the original clean up and as it seemed to be not doing very much I deemed it unnecessary to do very much else to it rather than risk breaking it off in its hole. So I let it be.

    Now part of the forks job is the steering damper in the top yokes. This, together with the tank top grid are features of a Triumph that I think spell out ‘Triumph’. So when it came to getting the ‘correct’ fitting parts for the damper it became obvious what the function of that little screw really is. The bottom nut for the damper handle has an oddly shaped slot which is recurved at the top and engages with the screw to allow the nut to take up the vertical movement of the damper without becoming disengaged. Quite clever really.

    Another thing that’s not obvious is how the damper holds the tension as it’s screwed down. The bottom anchor plate is pulled up against the under surface of the lower headstock bracket. Between them is a friction disc which presumably stops the two backing off and losing the friction. The new anchor plate came fully painted and the headstock surface is fully painted by me. Clearly there shouldn’t be any oil or grease between the surfaces, but the question is whether there should there be any paint or other finish on the surfaces to keep them rust free, or should they just be left bare with only the friction pad to keep them clean and tight?

    Anyway to get the pin out I had to heat up the stock and use an impact driver to get it loose. On top of that I scraped off the paint on the underside of its friction surface. All this left the bracket looking a bit ‘second hand’ with chips around the screw hole and the flanged end. I’ve masked up the friction surface and flatted back the rest of it to repaint it again. The anchor plate however is still painted until I find out how it should be finished off.

    While the black paint was out I’ve taken the opportunity to flat back the chips and lumps on the damper head knob and give it a coat of paint. I had looked at a lot of available photographs to find out whether the originals were painted black or buffed up original aluminium. From what I can see there seems to be a fifty/fifty split on original or reconditioned examples, but the black painted ones seem to be slightly more prolific. That’s the route I’ve taken as I can clean up the knob and hide a few scratches under the new paintwork.

    I had thought that I would be able to start assembling the forks and get them fitted to the frame a couple of weeks ago, but the above and a couple of other problems that I’m still trying to resolve kicked that out the window.
     
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