You Cannot Take Them Seriously.

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Wire-Wheels, Jun 13, 2021.

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  1. Golgotha

    Golgotha That Guy
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    Feb 5, 2021
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    Out In Front.
    Most enviromental crusaders ignore the fact that the electricity used to charge up their Teslas still originates at a powerplant generated by turbines running on fossil fuels. 95+% of them, anyway.

    Personally, I miss the days of sarcastic presidential tweets, gas @ around 2 buck a gallon, and affordable sheets of plywood.

    YMMV.
     
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  2. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    #22 SuperHans, Jun 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
    Its very country specific and its still a difference from powering a power-plant with fossil fuel vs to run a car on fossil fuel in terms of efficiency and pollution and energy use.
    Also, its about 50/50 when it comes to clean energy vs fossil energy in the US and about the same in the EU.
     
  3. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
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    Bottom line is, you still have to get people to buy in to their idea. I am not interested. Tell me.whatever B.S. you will. I still sign the checks. Not going to happen here. You have to make me WANT IT. I don't. ...J.D.
     
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  4. Golgotha

    Golgotha That Guy
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    Feb 5, 2021
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    Out In Front.
    A power plant running large gas turbines are commonly dual/multi-fuel nat gas, diesel, kerosine, etc. Clean burn is dicated by what they are running off of that week/month. The emissions of a single car compared to even a smaller, aerial-derivative single gas turbine(meaning- literally a converted jet engine) are night and day. And I've seen multiple turbine plants with each engine nearly the size of the Good-Year Blimp.
     
  5. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
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    #25 Wire-Wheels, Jun 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
    In my part of the world, most steam plants run on Nat. gas. In a few areas outside of the AQMD regulated regions I know of at least one coal.fired plant, but that is rare. I spent a bit of time around steam, mostly while I was an apprentice engineer doing my schooling. Steam is not a simple way to make electricity no matter what you run it on. I also know of ONE solar steam plant [I believe it is now decommissioned] as with all solar it is only viable during the daylight hours.
    I'll stick with "dinosaur juice". ...J.D.
     
  6. Dartplayer

    Dartplayer Crème de la Crème

    Aug 8, 2018
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    Greenies in NZ banned gas and coal exploration, so we are shipping coal from China to power the turbines during the water shortage.:weary_face:
    Narrow minded to me :cool:
     
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  7. Erling

    Erling Senior Member

    Dec 12, 2017
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    Norway
    J.D.;
    EVs or not, it seems you need to upgrade your infrastructure. From what I read elsewhere though (California’s Clean Transportation Program), I got the impression that your state is mainly taking the hydrogen route to zero-emission cars? It would have been highly interesting to see how this works where there is not enough electric power available or the grid is insufficient. There are plenty of areas in this world in the same situation or worse, like South Africa with its rolling blackouts.

    On the other hand, in other countries and regions this is not a problem. And the manufacturers have now finally started introducing EVs that in most aspects are equal to or better than ICE cars. Cars with all-wheel drive, good towing capacity and long range. Look at Audi e-Tron, Volvo XC40, VW ID.4, Skoda Enyaq Ford Mustang Mach-E, and that’s just the beginning. Ford has even announced their F-150 as an EV for 2022. In my country, six of the ten most sold models last month were all-electric, the remaining four were hybrids.

    We got our Volvo XC40 in February, and we couldn’t be happier. We mainly charge at home on low night rates, and when we recently did an 8 hour trip we topped up the battery on rapid chargers twice when stopped for our half hour coffee breaks and arrived at the same time as we would in our ICE car. The car only required one stop, it is us who need more. We’re not romantic tree-huggers, it’s simply that this way we got a car that does everything we could possibly want from a car and more, to a fraction of ICE car costs. 4.6 sec 0-60 is always nice, but what we really enjoy is the 487 footpounds of instant torque while trailering our 1500 kg boat.

    I’ll always love my classic car and the old Triumph, but with other parts of my heart.
     
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  8. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    Cool, didn't know that they were "multifuel" in the way you describe it.
    But what do you mean by the single car vs single gas turbine? You mean the emissions of the turbine is a lot less if you calculate the energy it produces that can be used?
     
  9. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    Have a look into how much electricity/energy it takes to produce petrol, its quite a lot....
     
  10. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
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    #30 Wire-Wheels, Jun 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
    Sorry. Not MY infrastructure. You live with what this world gives you to work with. Personally I drive an older Volvo S-80 as the main transportation. Really not interested in anything new. I got tired of making car payments. I am not willing to open my wallet to enable and support the auto makers anymore. I am done with them ! The automakers will blow any color smoke they think you will pay for and the politicians will tell you anything that will get them elected. ...J.D.
     
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  11. Russell Stroup

    Russell Stroup Senior Member
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    Nov 10, 2020
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    35 years ago my environmental science professor told us “There’s no such thing as a free lunch”. His theory was that for just about everything that is produced, consumed, or used on a regular basis, there are negative effects on the back end. This is a true today as it was 35 years ago.
    I see no difference between, drilling underground to mine precious minerals, and running 100s of acres of landscape with wind turbines or solar panels.
    What are we going to do with electric cars when they are junk? I can’t even put an old TV in the trash because of all the electronics! I guarantee we will be paying too “dispose of” these things in the future.
    I will be putting my foot on the “gas pedal” as long as I can .
     
  12. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    I totally agree on the "there's no free lunches" but have never used it as a reason to stop being innovative or adapt to new tech, that's a new one.

    What to do with old electric cars when they are junk..?? The same thing as we do with todays cars, we scrap them. I don't really understand why people are making EV's into such a big problem. Its a bit like hearing non motorcycle riders waffling on how bad motorcycles are without ever having sat on one or spent 5 minutes being open to the fact that "shit, I don't much about these metal horses, maybe I shouldn't just hate them before ever ridden one"

    So why don't I have an EV yet, well, for starters its a case of actually being able to charge the car. I live in a housing cooperative with a majority of people there being over 50. Most of them aren't interested in new tech (just to fibre to get a decent internet connection was a fight).
    So there are challenges to say the least, big and small.
     
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  13. littleade

    littleade The only sane one here
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    Mar 17, 2015
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    I think for many they are just too expensive, the charging structure is poor and the range just precludes those who can only afford 1car from having one as for a single vehicle family they have just too many drawbacks. If you think about it logically the ev sits in the second car profile, which is usually a smallish petrol car and evs are double the cost of one of those which don't by comparison produce that much polution anyway. Hydrogen is a more flexible alternative but produces a load of co2 when it's created so it's just dumping the pollution elsewhere. Yep there's no such thing as a free lunch and much like other energy useage I don't think there will be a 1size fits all solution to transport polution, not in my lifetime anyway
     
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  14. tcbandituk

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    Apr 8, 2016
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    Looked at electric cars recently with a view to changing mine, not too bothered about a car being ICE or electric, but electric still too impractical for me currently.
    Way too expensive still, most can't have a tow bar fitted, short range and too long to refuel on long journeys amongst other things.
    Also the technology is still changing too much and is inconsistent with things like chargers etc, in a few years time the current electrical cars will be out of date.
    Once the various problems are sorted out then I might reconsider, but it'll probably be another diesel or hang on to the current one for me for now
     
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  15. Smilinjack

    Smilinjack Crème de la Crème

    Aug 14, 2016
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    I'm on the lookout for another smoker right now, hopefully last me a good while. Leccy car wouldn't be any use to me, er, currently, let alone all the considerations of compatibility, etc as previous poster outlined. :)
     
  16. andypandy

    andypandy Elite Member

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    There's also the question of replacement battery cost. I had my previous Honda Civic for ten years with just servicing, tyres, brakes and wiper blades to pay for. How many new batteries would a leccy car need and how much would they be ?
     
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  17. Tallpaul

    Tallpaul Senior Member

    Apr 7, 2019
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    If you need to ask, you can't afford it....................
     
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  18. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/

    Also, most manufacturers can swap individual cells (I know VW made a point out of that they could years ago).
     
  19. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
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    Its interesting how a lot of people (including myself) sometimes are so negative to new technology and some that are haven't done basic research or even tested it. Why is that?

    I remember a similar discussion when ABS was introduced on bikes, the rants could create threads that were miles long. All from its destroying the feel to that some insisted that they were better than the ABS system.

    And why do we, if something new comes along, need it to be so much better rather than a smaller improvement to be convinced?
    Is the hate towards EV political, people don't wanna taken for someone who is caring about the environment and voting for the "green party"?

    Sure, EV's aren't perfect but neither are ICE, and even more interesting to see is how the old rivals that used to fight about Diesel vs Petrol, now have joined forces against EV's.
     
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  20. andypandy

    andypandy Elite Member

    Jan 10, 2016
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