Featured Sturgis 2023: Taking The Long Way ' Round In The American Southwest

Discussion in 'Rideouts, Trackdays, Touring & Spotted' started by Sandi T, Aug 19, 2023.

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  1. learningtofly

    learningtofly He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!
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    Also interested to know.

    That was some big country right there, though. Stunning.
     
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  2. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    That is one of God's own mysteries, @Helmut Visor. I've asked as have others, but I'm gonna pin him down on this one. He did say he misremembered how many freeway miles this route entailed and thought it to be about half of what it actually was. My best guess is that he went this route last year and so knew to where it would lead. That and probably that it would be a shorter route to Bear Lake and those luscious raspberry milkshakes. ;):joy:
     
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  3. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    #23 Sandi T, Aug 23, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2023
    Day #3, Provo, Utah to Jackson, Wyoming continued:

    Almost immediately after departing Garden City, Utah, we continued along Bear Lake and entered the state of Idaho. It was interesting to see the differences in the road quality and also the appearance of the little towns in Idaho relative to both of those things in Utah. Utah seemed much "tidier", cleaner, and well-kept. Altogether we rode through half a dozen tiny Idahoan towns including Fish Haven (on the banks of Bear Lake), St. Charles, Paris, Ovid, and Montpelier. Of those, I thought Paris the cutest and quaintest but maybe the town name was just influencing me. ;)

    For most of the remainder of our miles to Jackson we rode through the Caribou National Forest and the Bridger-Teton National Forest which were breathtaking. The Wyoming Mountain Range was to our right with views of Wyoming Peak, McDougal Peak, and Hoback Peak in the distance. Each of these three peaks is about 11,000 feet. Again we rode through about half a dozen small towns and between towns saw many ranches to our left / west stretching towards the Idaho border.

    At the beginning of my Day #3 posts, I promised ANTLERS! Here was the first of that theme in the little western town of Afton. It was quite a sight to behold but I'd have had no idea of the vastness--and weight--without Mr. Wiki's assistance. ;):joy:


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    Afton is a town in Lincoln County, Wyoming, United States. The population was 2,172 at the 2020 census. Afton is home to the world's largest arch made of elk antlers. Spanning 75 feet across the four lanes of U.S. Highway 89, the arch consists of 3,011 elk antlers and weighs 15 tons. Wikipedia

    As we continued towards Jackson the road became twistier much to our delight. When we reached the town of Alpine Junction, we took a right turn which sent us to the north/northeast towards our days destination of Jackson, Wyoming. Once we turned there was a deep and vast canyon to our right with an amazing river at its base. I checked in with Steve to find out what the river was and he replied, "That's the famous Snake River!" It turns out that we were riding along just a teensy part of a massive river that spans 1,078 miles and goes through Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, and Washington. All I know is the part of the Snake River that we were blessed to ride beside was BEAUTIFUL!! :heart_eyes:

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    A Google view of the the Snake River Canyon and Snake River in Wyoming.
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    After a spectacular winding ride along the Snake River we came out to some open roads as we neared Jackson. Steve made an executive decision to gas up here rather than trying to find a place in Jackson. This was our lovely gas station parking lot view. :heart_eyes: You can always tell Mr. Beemer by his "outfit" and CamelBak drinking system. ;)

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    Jackson, Wyoming! Jackson is a small town of just over 10,000 people. It's sometimes confused with Jackson Hole which is actually one of six nearby ski resorts. It is also only a hop, skip, and a jump away from Grand Teton National Park and Yellowstone National Park, both on tomorrow's itinerary. :)

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    Jackson is also quite the expensive little town. Our hotel here was the most expensive of any hotel on our trip by quite a pretty penny. It was also the, shall we say, lease posh. And none of our hotels was posh. ;):joy:

    More antlers! Our hotel for the evening was The Antler Motel. The bikes in the photo weren't ours but I wish we'd thought to park here before this group did. As it was, their bikes stayed dry while ours most definitely did not.

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    And yet more antlers! Here's Steve posing underneath one of the four antler arches found on each corner of the Jackson Town Square. While it was still dry...

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    Doesn't everyone need a Bear Chair??

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    Jackson offers a horse drawn wagon tour through town. I planned to chat with the driver after dinner because I drove a horse & carriage in San Diego, California for six years before I moved to Arizona.

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    But then it began to rain...... And rain. And rain.

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    Day #3: Provo, Utah to Jackson, Wyoming continued in my next post
     
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  4. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    Day #3: Provo, Utah to Jackson, Wyoming continued:

    As the rain continued, our group of eight was scattered around town and were trying to figure out where to meet up for dinner and drinks. Steve and our buddy, Ron, had already had a beer at a placed called "The Million Dollar Cowboy Bar". The name was certainly intriguing and Steve and Ron said it was a fun place. So we agreed to make our way there, trying to avoid raindrops and puddles along the way.

    From "Wildly Wyoming"
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    I love neon signs and this one was right up there with the best!

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    The place was packed, partly I'm sure to the draw of the place itself but also because people were trying to get in out of the rain. Check out these "bar stools", pardner!

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    One of the many fascinating things in this place was a big chandelier of sorts that had cutouts all around the top which were on a track that continuously rotated. The cutouts included things like a wagon train, bucking bronco and cowboy, coyotes and a saguaro, a cowboy riding the range, and (yes!) motorcycles!

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    To end my Day #3 report, a foodie photo. :yum:) Here's my bacon cheeseburger and coleslaw (gotta have a vegetable for balance) washed down with a local IPA from Grand Teton Brewing.

    I was hoping for better weather during our brief stay in Jackson as I'd been looking forward to seeing this iconic Western town since we first began planning our Sturgis trip. As it stood, I saw very little of the place other than to know that I liked what I saw. I would definitely plan to return and next time plan to stay for a few days!

    Coming up next....Day #4: Jackson, Wyoming to Cody, Wyoming via Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks
     
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  5. Dartplayer

    Dartplayer Crème de la Crème

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    Thanks Sandi, just snax (robust local cracker) and beer, the host serving for my mates driving. I usually have the. classic kiwi dip (reduced cream/onion soup mix) spiced up with garlic and sriracha with parsley.

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  6. Mrs Visor

    Mrs Visor Elite Member

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    As ever....thank you!!!! You go above and beyond to bring trips "to life". The Glen Canyon Dam looks incredible.
     
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  7. Helmut Visor

    Helmut Visor Only dead fish go with the flow
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  8. Dartplayer

    Dartplayer Crème de la Crème

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    Very similar Helmet, we have those as well. I find they break more often with a thick dip, being dryer/lighter, than the snax.
    Still good as a backup and I like the 3 small separate packs in the box to keep them fresh
     
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  9. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    Thanks, @Mrs Visor! Yes, Glen Canyon Dam is incredible and that canyon is gorgeous. I'd love to go back there and spend more time poking around. Glad you're enjoying the thread! More (lots!) to come.......
     
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  10. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    #30 Sandi T, Aug 24, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2023
    Day #4: Jackson, Wyoming to Cody, Wyoming
    via Grand Teton National Park and Yellowstone National Park

    Miles Today: 233


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    We awoke in Jackson to a lovely morning--and no rain! After wiping down the bikes from last night's rain, we convened at a highly recommended bagel joint about half a block from The Antler Motel.

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    This day began in a particularly "exciting" manner for me personally. :eek::scream: It was my turn to pay for Steve's and my meal, and when I went to pull out my primary credit card I realized with horror that....it wasn't there! It wasn't anywhere. Well, it was somewhere, but I certainly couldn't find it. So while everyone else enjoyed their bagels and coffee I was feverishly checking our hotel room and then calling my bank to report the card (Poof!) gone. :( The person helping me was very kind and understanding and calming. And he was extremely helpful. In a relatively short period of time he had confirmed that there were no fraudulent charges on said missing card, had a new one ordered and on its way to my Tucson mailbox, and doubled the limit on my backup low limit card so I could use that one for the remaining nine days of our trip. Sigh...... First world problem for sure but it was a wee bit stressful start to the day.

    From the town of Jackson it is a very short jaunt to Grand Teton National Park and we were all very excited to see it! I've some lovely photos but, as you can imagine, no photos can really capture the massiveness of a range like the Tetons nor the grandeur. I was bowled over and definitely want to go back again to spend a lot more time in this beautiful place. One of the most stunning things about the Tetons is how the land approaching them is flat and then they just rear up seemingly out of nowhere. :):heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:

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    Grand Teton, at 13,775 feet is the highest point of the Teton Range, and the second highest peak in Wyoming. The mountain is entirely within the Snake River drainage basin, which it feeds by several local creeks and glaciers.The Teton Range is a subrange of the Rocky Mountains, which extend from northern British Columbia to northern New Mexico. (Wiki info)

    The person leading this morning blew right past the turn to the Visitor Center. So when we stopped for the previous photo, Steve mentioned that little oversight to him and we all backtracked so we could go there. And it was well worth the backtracking!

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    It was a beautiful setting and building with beautiful views of the range and filled with tons of information.

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    And Steve bought me a bison stuffed animal in the gift shop to add to my stuffed animal collection. ;) My bison traveled about 2,000 miles in my right saddle bag to his new Tucson home. Ellie liked her new friend, too. :heart:

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    The floor of the visitor center where it faced the Teton Mountain Range had metal plates, each pointing to a specific peak with its altitude...very cool. Grand Teton is the highest peak in the range and clearly visible from this visitor center vantage point.

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    Day #4: Jackson, Wyoming to Cody, Wyoming continued in my next post
     
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  11. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    Day #4: Jackson, Wyoming to Cody, Wyoming continued:

    The ride through Grand Teton National Park was one of the most beautiful rides I've ever done and I didn't want it to end. Fortunately we went directly from Grand Teton to Yellowstone National Park...so we went from beauty to beauty!

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    As we entered Yellowstone National Park the landscape changed. Gone were the open meadows leading to mountains which were replaced by more dense woods. Initially the traffic was low and the riding spectacular. The riding remained spectacular throughout our time in the park but later in the day we (and all the others on the road, too) were stymied by summer road work. I thought to myself, "Why don't they do all this in the winter when the park isn't so crowded?" Then I thought, "Well, duh, you dunce. They don't do road work in the winter for the same reason the tourists don't come in the winter. The roads are closed because of all the SNOW! :cold_sweat:

    The kitschy, obligatory, but absolutely necessary group photo in front of the entrance sign. We had to wait our turn in line to take photos. :joy:

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    By this time everyone needed fuel--again, both for the bikes and for our bodies. Russell had been here last year so led us to one of the several General Stores inside the park. There we bought sandwiches and drinks and sat outdoors at a picnic table and enjoyed the scenery.

    While we were there, this massive RV pulled up and parked by our bikes. Steve struck up a conversation with the driver while I was inside the general store getting our food. He learned that this vehicle was actually an RV although it looked for all the world like a military vehicle. It's called a Unicat and some research upon our return home revealed that they cost $1.5 million! :eek: The driver said that is costs $1000 to fill it with gas and that they can go 2,000 miles on a "tank" of gas. I believe he said that he bought it in Germany and had it shipped to Houston, Texas, where he and his family currently live.

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    Our next stopping point was Old Faithful to see the famous geyser do its thing. Only two of the eight of us had seen Old Faithful up close and personal although all of us had heard about it and seen photos and videos of it since we were little kids. While most of the park didn't seem particularly busy, we realized that was because we hadn't been to the real tourist draws. We we realized that we weren't the only ones determined to see Old Faithful blow the minute we pulled into the parking lot.

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    There are many, many geysers in the part of Yellowstone but Old Faithful is the most famous and the one everyone waits to see. I think we got there just as it had erupted and wound up waiting over 90 minutes for the next eruption. I read that the intervals between eruptions has gotten much longer after an earthquake occurred in neighboring Idaho back in 1983. The eruptions are also smaller than they were years ago. That coupled with the wait time made many in our group feel a bit "cheated". I, on the other hand, thought it was pretty darned awesome and worth the wait. :)

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    But here is an Old Faithful eruption back in the 1930's. AND back then they let people go right up near the mouth of the geyser. Now observers are kept well back and required to stay on a boardwalk area around the perimeter.

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    One of of our group had really wanted to see the Prismatic Pools but by the time we'd seen Old Faithful do his thing we knew we needed to make our way through and out of the park and head to our days destination of Cody. So we braved the exiting traffic and began heading east by way of the road around Yellowstone Lake. More beauty!:heart_eyes:

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    Screenshot 2023-08-23 at 10.29.47 AM.png Yellowstone Lake is massive and beautiful. It is also quite varied. We rode through areas where it was heavily wooded and others where we were riding along a beach. We also rode through an extensive area that had clearly been devastated by fire. How long ago who knows? There were huge logs everywhere that looked like thousands of toothpicks lying on the ground criss-crossed across each other. It was quite humbling. The road along the northern perimeter is at altitude and very twisty so at times we had to sneak views at the grandeur all around us.

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    As we exited through the East Gate of Yellowstone, we remained riding through beautiful countryside on State Road 14 through the Shoshone National Forest and the Shoshone River Canyon into Buffalo Bill State Park, past Buffalo Bill Reservoir, and then through Wyoming's longest tunnel. Once again I realized I really need to get myself in gear and get a GoPro! Here's a motorcyclists view of the tunnel from YouTube. Thank you to those of you who DO record and post for those of us who don't!



    Once past the tunnel it was a short ride into Cody, Wyoming, where we checked in to our hotel, cleaned up, and went "local brew" hunting!

    Next up, Day #5: Cody, Wyoming to Lead, South Dakota and STURGIS!!

    Edit:
    This last photo was taken by a work colleague of mine when she and her family visited Grand Teton. She texted it to me but in a teensy version so it's highly pixilated. I tried to delete it from this post but it seems to be insistent on being included. :joy: My buddy, Kim, said she'd resent me this photo in a larger format so I'll repost it when I get it from her. She said she loves this photo so much she had it framed and it's hanging over their fireplace mantle!

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  12. Markus

    Markus Crème de la Crème
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    Thanks Sandi for the great stories, impressions and views! They are unbelievable!;)
     
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  13. andypandy

    andypandy Crème de la Crème

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    Well Sandi you've brought a lot of memories flooding back for me. My wife and myself did a road trip some years ago and seem to have followed your route, visiting Paige, Jackson, the Tetons, Yellowstone and Cody. We saw many of the features you mention including Old Faithful plus other geysers. Unfortunately I was not on a bike like you, I am very jealous. :)
     
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  14. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    Glad I could bring some of those great road trip memories back for you, @andypandy! I've not been on most of these routes before and have to say that I'm glad we did them on a motorcycle. But they are, I'm sure, just as striking and beautiful in a car. :heart_eyes: I wonder if much as changed since you and your wife did your road trip? I suspect one of the main changes would be the lack of water in some places, Lake Powell in particular comes to mind.
     
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  15. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    #35 Sandi T, Aug 26, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
    Day #5: Cody Wyoming to Lead, South Dakota---and STURGIS!
    Miles today: 393


    Today was our final run up to our primary destination of this trip--the Black Hills of South Dakota and the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. :) Interestingly, it was also a day of detours, back tracking, and missed turns. Have I mentioned that I'm not a GPS fan anymore? ;):joy:

    Our original plan was to depart from Cody and go through the Bighorn Mountains and Sheridan to Buffalo and Interstate 90 via the northern route. This was the route that Russell had chosen months prior to our departure as he'd heard it was a beautiful way to go through the mountains. But when morning rolled around he changed his choice to the southern route as the weather looked like it might be better and it was less technical. And the southern route also took us through the Bighorns. So we all recalibrated our GPS's (and me my expectations) and hit the road.

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    After gassing up the bikes we headed east on Route 14 towards the town of Greybull with Russell leading the group. However, after maybe 20 miles or so, he slowed considerably as if we were entering a town. But no town was in sight. Not much was in sight! He made a right turn on a tiny road and after we rode over a cattle guard and went another 20 yards the road turned to gravel. We've had many conversations among those in our group and, with our heavy touring bikes, we do our best to avoid dirt and gravel roads for pretty obvious reasons. Anyway, Russell kept going. Steve got onto the gravel, stopped, and began turning around. I stopped just short of the gravel but was now nose down and couldn't back my bike up on my own. Our whole group rallied together to get all of us safely (and upright!) and back onto the main road's shoulder. While we were doing that, another group of four guys on big touring bikes did the same thing! I'm guessing that they were using whatever GPS app that Russell was using!

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    Everyone was not only puzzled at Russell's choice but rather annoyed, too. We kept riding on the original road and eventually saw Russell sitting waiting at a crossroads. We continued on to Greybull and pulled into a large parking lot to regroup...and ask him what he was thinking. Well, his GPS showed a "shortcut" but neglected to show the road surface. In looking at the next part of the ride, Russell wanted to take another shortcut based on the same GPS. I went over to Steve's roll bag, pulled out a paper map, and showed him that that road was also unpaved! Sigh...... We all agreed to continue on the original PAVED route that would simply and easily take us to Worland then to Ten Sleep and on to Buffalo and Gillette with no fuss, no muss. Or so we thought. ;)

    One of the interesting things about taking a new route without doing lots of internet research ahead of time is that one can be surprised by some amazing beauty! That happened with Bear Lake on Day #3 and it happened again today with Ten Sleep Canyon and the Cloud Peak Skyway as we rode between the towns of Ten Sleep and Buffalo. It was spectacular! :heart_eyes:

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    Google Image
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    The Cloud Peak Skyway took us over Powder Pass at 9,600 feet. Not expecting this, most of us weren't dressed warmly enough for the ride. Fortunately we didn't get rained on during this stretch or we'd definitely have needed to find a pull-out to don our rain gear--both for dryness and warmth.

    Once we descended out of the Bighorns, we aimed the bikes for Buffalo and lunch and a restroom! However, signals again got quite crossed up and we wound up with neither...and separated into three groups. Somehow we managed to all regroup in Gillette, Wyoming at a McDonald's next to I-90! I think a few people were able to get cell service--which is very sporadic in the wide open spaces of Wyoming--and connect with others in the group.

    After a quick lunch at Micky D's, we got back on I-90 for the final stretch into the Black Hills. We'd gone from the forested, rugged terrain of the Bighorns to the wheat-colored wide open treeless stretches of eastern Wyoming so made good time rolling down the highway.

    Although our group had reconvened in Gillette, we were to split up again (this time on purpose) when we got near Sturgis. Three of our eight were camping at Chris's Campground near the town of Spearfish while the other five of us were staying at the Blackstone Lodge in Lead. The Prius driver, Roseanne, had offered to schlep camping gear to the campground so she and her boyfriend, Patrick, continued on with the camping group and would come to the Lead hotel afterwards.

    Ron, Steve, and I took the scenic route to Lead through Spearfish Canyon, an iconic ride at the rally and a beloved part of the Black Hills at all times of the year. Steve and I had ridden Spearfish Canyon multiple times when we were at Sturgis in 2019 and were more than happy to ride it again! There were already hundreds of motorcyclists riding the canyon in both directions even though the rally wouldn't officially begin for another two days.

    A side note: As we prepared to take our exit off I-90 and head for the canyon, I noted that my Street Glide Special had just turned over to 20,000 miles! I love that bike. :):heart:

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    The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is within the Black Hills National Forest, which covers 1.25 million acres and contains many amazing sights such ans Mount Rushmore and famous roads such as Needles Highway. We've only scratched the surface of the park, and Steve and I would like to go back again during the summer to ride and explore with our nephews who live in nearby Minnesota--when it's not rally time.

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    After a beautiful ride through Spearfish Canyon and the eight additional miles to our hotel, we arrived tired but happy at the Blackstone Lodge. We were glad to have taken the Spearfish Canyon route to get there because it was the perfect way to wind down after a long day in the saddle. :)

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    Day #5 continued in my next post
     
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  16. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    #36 Sandi T, Aug 26, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
    Day #5: Cody, Wyoming to Lead, South Dakota--and Sturgis--continued

    After checking in and figuring out where we could park the bikes, we unloaded our belongings feeling glad that we would be staying in one place for four nights in a row. When we stayed here back in 2019, the hotel manager allowed us to park under the overhang at the hotel entrance. But this year we were told that we couldn't do that because it was a fire lane and we'd be towed. So Ron, Steve, and I gave our bikes a quick wipe down and put our Nelson-Riggs 3/4 covers on. That would turn out to be a wise decision! ;):joy:

    From the hotel it's about a mile or so walk into the center of the town of Lead. In search of food and drink (beer!) we headed for the Stampmill, a place we'd eaten at in 2019 and liked well enough not only remember it but to return to. Well, that, and with a population of less than 3,000 there are precious few dining choices.

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    We saw this couple as we left the hotel. Steve often mentions getting a sidecar for our boxer, Ellie, so it was fun to see one with a human in the sidecar. That's Steve and Ron heading up the hill.

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    Lead is a former mining town that reminds me of the town of Bisbee, Arizona, a favorite of ours. It's a very hilly town and has lots of charm. I wouldn't want to have to park my car, much less my bike, on some of the streets here, though!

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    I sighted this deer feeling at home in someone's front yard!

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    Lead is about 15-20 miles from the town of Sturgis and about three miles from Deadwood. It does get quite busy during the rally, but at this point it was still pretty quiet.

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    Patrick and Roseanne returned from their camping supplies delivery run and joined Steve, Ron, and me for dinner at the Stampmill. They shared some "interesting" information about Chris's Campground, such as how the camping spaces were about the size of a car parking space in a parking lot. And, most interesting, that Chris's Campground had been selected as the Sturgis location for the meet-up of Hell's Angels from all across the U.S! :eek::joy: Accordingly, there were not only a lot of bikers at the campground but a lot of ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms) and DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) officers scattered around the grounds. :joy:

    As we walked around Deadwood and Sturgis over the next two days we made an interesting observation. There were lots of "No Colors" signs posted everywhere which means no one can wear a patch indicating an affiliation with a motorcycle club--from the Mongols to the Hell's Angels to the Christian Motorcyclists Club. And we saw many bikers with black leather vests with the affiliation patch conspicuously absent and only the bikers' state rocker displayed. However, I saw at least a half a dozen Hell's Angels with their patch in full view. Hmmm...

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    Next up, Day #6: Deadwood and Sturgis on foot
     
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  17. Rooster

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    #37 Rooster, Aug 27, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
    When I visited Deadwood during Sturgis week I went into Nuttal & Mann's Saloon, the saloon where Wild Bill Hickok was shot in the back of his head. As I entered I was asked to hand over my knife. Puzzled, I asked “what knife”, “that one” the doorman said, pointing at my little red Swiss Army knife that I had forgotten I had on my belt. I handed it over and was given a cloakroom ticket to retrieve it when I left. My little knife then was placed in a ducket alongside an array of huge knives and guns. I felt quite inadequate lol.

    Great review of your trip Sandi, I visited several places you did on my tour. Jackson, Cody, buffalo etc
     
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  18. andypandy

    andypandy Crème de la Crème

    Jan 10, 2016
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    Never a lack of water be it in lakes, tumbling rivers or cascading waterfalls.
     
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  19. Dartplayer

    Dartplayer Crème de la Crème

    Aug 8, 2018
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    Amazing scenery Sandi. The tunnel video makes ours look like a hallway :joy:. Enjoying the people watching and looking forward to seeing some at the event.:eyes:
    I see Russell does have an alternative to BMW cream, grey marle :p
    Most of the GPS apps have a sealed and highway on/off mode??:idea:
     
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  20. Sandi T

    Sandi T It's ride o'clock somewhere!
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    Dec 3, 2018
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    My next set of posts from both Days #6 and 7 will have lots of photos from the event, @Dartplayer! But I'll warn you, we got quite a bit of rain as you may have heard elsewhere. Evidently this Sturgis Rally was the wettest in 25 years! What are the odds? :rolleyes::pensive:

    Re. the GPS apps settings, I'll have to ask my riding buddies about their particular apps. I think Russell was using his iPhone with either Apple's Maps app or Google Maps. Ron has four GPS systems and I'm not sure what they all are. I was using a laminated Rand McNally map. ;):joy:

    I think that's Ron you're talking about with the BMW cream alternative. Ron loves gray and most all of what he owns is some variation of it.
     
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