Sprockets - More Teeth On Rear = Faster Acceleration+ Top Speed?

Discussion in 'Triumph General Discussion' started by MartyWilson, Aug 7, 2020.

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  1. MartyWilson

    MartyWilson Guest

    Hi all,

    Sometimes I just find my head gets a little 'puggled' when faced with certain things and gearing and sprockets are one such thing. I recently changed the wheels over between a Sprint RS I bought as a donor with nearly new Pirelli Angels fitted and my own Sprint RS ones with worn out and possibly out of date Michelin Pilot Road two or threes, can't remember offhand. What I discovered during this change was that my own Sprint had a sprocket with something like 49 teeth, can't recall exactly, rather than the specified normal 43 teeth where the Donor bike, IIRC, had 41 teeth (smaller than 'stock').

    Now my wee brain tells me that that means that, on my bike, assuming it carries the standard 19 tooth engine output sprocket, one full turn of the rear wheel requires two and a half turns of the engine output sprocket where, with the standard 43 tooth wheel sprocket only two and a quarter revolutions of the output sprocket are required to travel the same distance.

    Have I got this right?
     
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  2. Old dumb arse

    Old dumb arse Noble Member

    Mar 28, 2020
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    Can't do both, higher top speed gearing slows acceleration, and vice versa, with very few power band exceptions.
     
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  3. MartyWilson

    MartyWilson Guest

    #3 MartyWilson, Aug 7, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2020
    Ah @Old dumb arse thanks, I think I've just had a lightbulb moment! - While a smaller rear sprocket means the wheel turns farther per engine rev it also takes more power to do it so you will run out of power sooner in your highest gear where a bigger sprocket means slower acceleration but you will use less power per turn of the wheel so shouldn't run out of power as quickly in top gear. Have I got that right?

    But what if it's your 'red line' that is stopping you using all your throttle rather than lack of power?

    I have only been brave enough to get my Sprint RS up to somewhere around 125-130mph on the clock but it takes a wee while (still blisteringly quick relatively though!) to reach that speed and, between running out of straight road, clean underwear and revs I haven't wanted to push it past that. The bike is booked for around 150mph although my bulk may mean that that sort of speed isn't possible.
     
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  4. Hobnail

    Hobnail Senior Member

    Jan 4, 2020
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    More teeth = bigger sprocket = more torque at the wheel for any motor RPM, as torque = Force * Radius of sprocket. Torque means acceleration. However, higher ratios at the motor maximum RPM means less RPM at the wheel = lower speed at any given motor RPM. The surface speed of the chain is the same. Your sprockets with more teeth give you a higher ratio, which gives more acceleration, but less top speed. Less teeth go the opposite direction. Ratio is generally calculated as rear teeth / countershaft teeth.
     
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  5. Old dumb arse

    Old dumb arse Noble Member

    Mar 28, 2020
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    Hard to say, change the sprocket for top speed bragging rights at the pub. Sometimes requires a length change for the chain. May or may not provide better fuel economy. Maybe somebody else can chime in.
     
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  6. MartyWilson

    MartyWilson Guest

    Ah, I don't totally understand that @Hobnail but it makes sense against what I have experienced on this bike. The bugger accelerates so quick that it actually bleedin' gave me a few seconds of motion sickness once when I cracked the throttle open and, basically accelerates as fast as you can twist the throttle but I am hitting the rev limiter in top before I run out of power.
     
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  7. MartyWilson

    MartyWilson Guest

    The delightful thing is that I have two of these and the one with the small sprocket (which I bought as a donor) needs a new chain and sprockets. I bought her to use for spares but, instead, I am going to get her prepped to be put on the road next year. When I bought her the only things that she had failed her MOT on were fork seals and rear brake disc and she had an advisory for a new chain and sprockets as it was at it's adjustment limits. So come the next summer I can compare the two like for like. Even the engine mileages are similar. Unfortunately It's a bit late to be worth getting her on the road this year when I have plenty of bikes with road tax, MOT and Insurance all paid for.
     
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  8. Hobnail

    Hobnail Senior Member

    Jan 4, 2020
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    If you are not horsepower limited, drop a tooth if you want to go faster. My Sprint RS hits 100 mph with plenty of RPM left. Stock 2000 RS comes with a 43/19. Daytona has 42/19. I think I added a tooth when I last changed the rear sprocket. Bikes are generally stopped by aerodynamics, as they present the same as a barn door, when compared to a race car.
     
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  9. Vulpes

    Vulpes Confused Member

    Mar 14, 2018
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    On my Speed Triple I've got three teeth up from stock - it accellerates like a bat out of hell, and still easily does 140 mph.
     
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  10. Vulpes

    Vulpes Confused Member

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    Overtaking a bus on Skye last year I inadvertently wheelied past it - fortunately I was wearing brown underpants... o_O
     
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  11. Riggers

    Riggers Well-Known Member

    Jul 26, 2020
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    The best way to understand what's happening is to ride a push bike with derailleur gears (the type with exposed workings) and watch and experiment with the various ratios. You'll soon get the hang of what makes for easier (i.e. faster) acceleration but less top speed, and vice versa.

    You'll also understand why we ride motorbikes and not push bikes! :p
     
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  12. Bad Billy

    Bad Billy Baddest Member

    Jun 1, 2017
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    For what it's worth here's my two pennyworth.

    Most bikes are over geared for the road as standard, I have not found one yet that didn't ride better by changing the front sprocket for one tooth less than standard, or three teeth more extra on rear, this has exactly the same effect.
    So 1 tooth less on front = 3 teeth more on rear.

    My preference for road is to change front sprocket as it is cheaper & the one tooth change has less effect on chain length, but for racing I have a wide range of sprockets both front and rear.

    To give an insight, recent testing at Cadwell with 14 front 46 rear meant that I was not getting top until too late in the straights, also coming out of corners in 2nd gear it was trying to wheelie while still cranked over, 3rd gear was better but not quite urgent enough, so gearing changed by one tooth to a 47 rear.
     
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  13. Octoberon

    Octoberon Crème de la Crème

    Jul 2, 2020
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    This thread has got a few of us thinking, it seems. I don't need a top speed of 120+ on my Street Triple that doesn't have any fairing. The fun has always been in the acceleration and handling. Might be time to experiment with a tooth off the front sprocket.
     
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  14. Octoberon

    Octoberon Crème de la Crème

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    Presumably there's a margin for the chain and as Billy said, the front sprocket has a smaller impact. Not that I'm any sort of expert.
     
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  15. Samsgrandad

    Samsgrandad Senior Member

    Dec 15, 2019
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    One tooth plus or minus on the front sprocket is not going to have an effect on chain length.
     
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  16. Bad Billy

    Bad Billy Baddest Member

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    No Duck, one tooth will not mean taking a link out of the chain, it will just need adjusting but will be well within adjustment levels available.
     
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  17. Bad Billy

    Bad Billy Baddest Member

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    That's what I did on my 675R, made it accelerate much better and if honest when I did test the top end it just meant it pulled all the way to the red line in top, to an indicated 153 mph (probably more like 140 in reality). :)
    Strangely the 765RS I owned afterwards never felt like it needed gearing down? :confused:
     
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  18. Riggers

    Riggers Well-Known Member

    Jul 26, 2020
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    No, you'll find just one tooth on the front sprocket can be taken up by the chain adjusters.:)
     
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  19. Octoberon

    Octoberon Crème de la Crème

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    Let us know what sort of difference you think it makes.
     
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  20. Rocker

    Rocker Elite Member

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