Simple mod has saved Bonnie from classifieds

Discussion in 'Bonneville' started by BillK, Apr 12, 2015.

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  1. BillK

    BillK New Member

    Oct 18, 2014
    1
    3
    I'm sure this is a very well know mod, but I have only found out about it this morning.

    I have only been riding my Bonnie for 3 months, but have really struggled with the 'snatchy' throttle on both acceleration and deceleration. This has caused me countless problems with slow riding, pulling away, slowing and exhaust popping. To be honest, I have started to think whether this is the bike for me.

    After googling this this morning, I found a post on Triumph Rat about a very simple 5min mod.

    1. Remove seat
    2. locate rubber pipe to airbox
    3. Disconnect rubber pipe
    4. Insert a 15mm diameter marble into the rubber tube (it appears most, if not all marbles are 15mm diameter)
    5. Re-connect rubber tube
    6. Refit seat
    7. Job done!

    Just been for a quick half hour ride and can confirm my bike has been totally transformed!!!

    It now rides lovely and smooth with no popping, absolutely perfect!

    This was literally a 5min job with the added time of finding a bloody marble!

    Cheers,

    Bill.
     
  2. thebiglad

    thebiglad Old fart, still riding !

    Sep 25, 2013
    4,880
    800
    Central France
    Hi Bill, yes it's a great temporary mod to see if you like the effect of De-AI ing your bike. If you are happy with the results then you might care to consider doing the mod on a permanent basis, I'll be more than happy to walk you through it.

    Why would you want to do anything more? Because after a while you'll get condensation building up in the blocked pipe and spark plug access is really difficult. It's not the end of the world, but when you see how much space under the tank and around the spark plugs is liberated when you do the AI system removal, you'll be impressed !

    And importantly it is totally reversible if you keep the removed plumbing, should you ever need to return the bike to standard.

    Cheers
    Dave
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. BillK

    BillK New Member

    Oct 18, 2014
    1
    3
    Dave,

    Thanks for your reply and offer of guidance on the AI system removal. Ideally, I'd leave as is, could you please give me a bit more info on what problems may arise. Which side of the marble could have a condensation build up and what harm, if any could this cause? Are there any other potential side affects?

    Cheers,

    Bill.
     
  4. thebiglad

    thebiglad Old fart, still riding !

    Sep 25, 2013
    4,880
    800
    Central France
    Hi Bill, the condensation builds up between the marble and the rest of the tube which goes to the solenoid and ultimately to the cylinder head.

    What harm could this condensation do? Hard to say as most peeps feel that keeping a redundant system on their bike is, well redundant. So they pull it all out.

    The question I asked myself before removing it was - why is it there and what merit is that to me?

    It's there as a cheap fix to allow the manufacturer to meet their product pollution targets.

    What benefit is this system to me? None whatsoever. In fact this system causes the exhaust downpipes to super-heat, turning them blue, as well as creating running issues.

    So for me the system was removed asap. As I learnt more about the fuelling and control the more I realised that the engine could work much better, much more efficiently, without the AI and O² sensors, without the airbox snorkel and baffle plate.

    So I removed this stuff, replaced the ECU fuelling map (supplied by TTP) and now she runs, smoothly, confidently and efficiently.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. half ton

    half ton Crème de la Crème

    Oct 18, 2013
    3,179
    1,000
    uk
    Nicely put Big lad……I have wondered if a basic intro to simple efficient mods and performance gains could be put as a sticky at the top of the Bonnie section….It might help a few new owners /members and also (just my opinion)stop them from selling and moving onto another bike because they feel the bike is lacking something……which is easily sorted !!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Adam Gray

    Adam Gray New Member

    Mar 22, 2015
    8
    3
    Stonehaven

    I think this would make a great post.....

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  7. BillK

    BillK New Member

    Oct 18, 2014
    1
    3
    After thinking it through and watching a couple of YouTube videos, I decided to remove.
    Apart from removing the tubes from the cylinder head, this was very simple. Not run yet as I'm waiting for the cylinder head bolts to arrive in the post.
    Will report back.

    Cheers,

    Bill
     
  8. thebiglad

    thebiglad Old fart, still riding !

    Sep 25, 2013
    4,880
    800
    Central France
    Hi Bill, first of all excellent decision ! Second, the easiest way to remove the injectors in the head, is to remove the elbow rigid pipe attaching to them, then you can slip an offset spanner (10mm from memory) over the tubes and unscrew them. Just be careful there is no debris at the base otherwise this could fall into the hole.

    To remove the rigid elbow just grab it with some pliers and pull it straight off.

    Cheers,

    Dave
     
  9. roadtrip

    roadtrip Member

    Oct 27, 2014
    14
    8
    Scotland
    I've had my Bonneville Newchurch a week or so and am quite happy with the throttle on /off response, I reduced the free play at the throttle (as I always do, just my preference) other than that didn't think any more about it.

    now you've got me thinking I need to remove a load of redundant gear ... what does 'AI' stand for?

    what has struck me over the first week has been the rear suspension which I found unduly harsh. Have fitted a pair of Hagon shocks (same length as original) which are a great improvement for only £140.
     
  10. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme
    Subscriber

    Nov 6, 2014
    6,581
    1,000
    sw london
    hi Davey have a look here and it tells you all. basically they are there to burn off any excess fuel in the exhaust to meet emission controls
     
  11. thebiglad

    thebiglad Old fart, still riding !

    Sep 25, 2013
    4,880
    800
    Central France
    Not Artificial Insemination ! No it stands for Air Injection and is a system operated by the ECM under light throttle loads. As Crispey said it's an anti-pollution device to allow the manufacturers to pass their pollution targets, not the MOT targets.

    It injects air into the head just after the exhaust valve and is there to burn off any unburnt fuel. However this has several side effects : 1. the exhaust downpipes get super-heated and go blue, 2. this air injected creates air/fuel ratio changes read by the downstream O² sensors causing lack of smooth performance on/off the throttle.

    Basically it's a botch-up cheap way of the manufacturer to achieve their required targets and does little for the end user.

    I replaced the AI system and the O² sensors plus a bespoke fuelling map from TTP to match the configuration of my bike modifications,and she runs beautifully. Economy when desired,loads of torque and power when needed, plus very smooth running.

    Dave
     
  12. Interesting stuff - and thanks to Davy (Roadtrip) for getting answers that helped with my confusion!
    Is something similar fitted to all bikes? It is tricky getting a smooth transition between closed and open throttle but it's not much difference on my Speed Triple..
    Find that I'm compensating by slipping the clutch - but tricky all the same when doing it going round a bend or corner in traffic...
    I'll need to read up some more before attempting any changes!
     
  13. Wondered why the pipes on my Bonny were so coloured after only 400 miles!
    So if I buy the SAI removal kit in the link above is there anything else I should think about doing?
     
  14. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme
    Subscriber

    Nov 6, 2014
    6,581
    1,000
    sw london
    Well you should have a look here as this sorts thelow Rev running out. You can get the kits from elsewhere, also download a copy of tuneecu so that you can delete them from your map
     
  15. Thanks Crispey - checked out the links - plug kit looks reasonably straight forward - but the ECU tune - scary stuff - "your engine could be destroyed"!
    Maybe not for me - and we're a Mac household too which doesn't seem to be catered for unless prepared to install Windows....
     
  16. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme
    Subscriber

    Nov 6, 2014
    6,581
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    I used it no probs, but instead when fitted and if the engine management light stays on I'm sure if you take it to your local dyno tune shop they would sort it for you.
     
  17. Thanks again - was thinking something similar - remove the hardware myself and look to 3rd party for the computer stuff.
    How do Triumph look at this with regard to warranty?

    Sun's out - time to kit up!
     
  18. half ton

    half ton Crème de la Crème

    Oct 18, 2013
    3,179
    1,000
    uk
    Bumblebee,If you go ahead just make sure triumph do not touch the ecu on a service (some times put in updates apparently)they will just put in the old map for arrow or tors pipes if you have them and it stuffs up .Tell em to leave it alone (its your bike)they don't need to know what tune you have on a service…..TTP stuff is all good as most peeps will testify ;)
     
  19. Thanks HT - I'll have a chat with my contact at the dealer - it's booked for a service next month.
    martin
     
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  20. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme
    Subscriber

    Nov 6, 2014
    6,581
    1,000
    sw london
    as half ton says! the dealer I took it to re-mapped mine without asking, I didn't know you had to specifically request not to tamper. They threw a wobbly about the o2 sensors being removed saying they hadn't seen it in an efi model before and It'll damage the engine etc?? Its had them off for 2 years.
     
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