765 Lithium Battery

Discussion in 'Street Triple' started by PH1969, May 3, 2022.

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  1. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
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    FYI the new machines are now OE LiFePO4.

    My personal choice would still be a good quality AGM like ‘Odyssey. Just because I have experience of them like the one I fitted to my Ducati in 2010 which is still going strong.
     
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  2. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
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    Only just seen the post however I agree totally with Baza, I defy anyone on a road going (public roads riding that is) that they will be able to identify any differences with a 765rs 2kg weight saving it's absolutely horseradish, a while back Peter Hickman undertook some advanced rider training for the road (public not racing) aboard a standard Street Triple 765rs, interestingly he couldn't use all the performance and he holds the outright lap record for the Isle Of Man TT, he is an extremely quick rider on UK roads and mere mortals would find it difficult keeping up with him. If you want improvements and weight savings then go for a de cat and fit a performance exhaust, re map the ECU, fit a K Tech front fork kit and rear shock, and purchase all manner of performance kit from UK Race Support, then book some track days for some fun. Ride safe all from an ageing Rocker.
     
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  3. PH1969

    PH1969 Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2017
    127
    93
    Northampton
    I asked because my original battery is a duffer and if it needs changing then I would prefer a lighter one. My bike is generally track only
     
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  4. Tom Swift

    Tom Swift Active Member

    Sep 24, 2021
    140
    43
    USA
    Honda started using lithium for their Africa Twin. One of the first units to arrive at the local dealership caught fire.
     
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  5. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
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    As I said earlier the electrical infrastructure on the machine needs to be capable of dealing with the tremendous output these LiFePO4 batteries are capable of.

    Personally I don’t see the sense in introducing, at greater cost, a component into the electrical system that may exhibit serious consequences if it or it’s connected components somehow malfunction.
     
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  6. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,052
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    Battery only supplies what the - solenoid - starter motor - coils - injection - fuel pump and so on draw!
    DC or AC electrical systems only use what is drawn - pulled through the cables/wires..
    Fire's start if there is a bad connection between supply and demand points or short's...
    A bigger pot to drain means longer push can be supplied! If it's going through a good system there isn't a big problem... But put a short or dry joint in the supply line A Lithium ion battery will certainly push harder and make 3 to 4 time's the heat and for longer before it fails/ fall's off......
     
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  7. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
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    #27 Eldon, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    I hear what your saying @capt but I'm in the same camp as @Baza nice clear explanation though ;).

    I see this as one of the manufacturers upgrades to a problem that really didn't need fixing. Cold weather ratings, expense, specific chargers are just a few issues to save a small amount of weight when really the weight issue is due to all the modern clutter (emissions, abs etc.). Look at bikes from the 1980's and most are not a lot heavier than now so where is the real progress?

    Anyway it's your money so you take your choice and it's nice to have options.

    Just as a slight sideline......
    Would most/any lithium users know how to tackle a fire in their garage, what to use etc. if it did go wrong?
     
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  8. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
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    #28 Pegscraper, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    When litium batteries overheat they generate a mix of flammable toxic gases and oxygen, hence the difficulty extinguishing them.
    As most will know, LA batteries generate explosive hydrogen when charging, a fact I forgot a few years back while working in the garage. Battery on charge at one end of the bench and me deciding to use an angle grinder on some metal in the vice 3 feet away. Flash BANG!! Thankfully it was the back of the battery facing the wall that blew out flooding the bench with sulphuric acid. Phew!...I should have bought a lottery ticket that day. What a w****r!:mad:

    Bang!.jpg
     
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  9. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
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    Gosh a lucky escape Pegscraper and glad you did not get hurt. Back to lithium batteries, if they are the holy grail so to speak then why don't more manufacturers fit them as standard, and it is nothing to do with the extra cost. Now here is a factual piece of information, a not insignificant amount of electric vehicles have recently caught fire, mostly on motorways, initially these have been dealt with by the emergency services (fire brigade), then they had been recovered and put in a storage yard awaiting an insurance disposal, however a lot have subsequently re ignited, not only causing a fully burned out vehicle but surrounding vehicle damage, what happens now is a specialist recovery vehicle attends with a container full of water (a skip like steel open container), the electric vehicle is then craned off into the water container and transported to the salvage yard, there it remains until it is deemed safe, there are added complex complications in the unfortunate event of a fatality. Electric bicycle's are another fire hazard, they usually ignite whilst charging, and these bicycle's are not always of dare I say it, cheap Chinese origin with little in the way of recognised safety standards. Ride safe all from an ageing Rocker.
     
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  10. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,052
    750
    western Australia
    You'd need a foam or one of those old "Illegal" "BCF" fire extinguishers, the gas suppression type....
    Don't really know if there are any gas based replacement types out ...
    Put the fire out by covering it in nonflammable chemicals or gases , powders might work , but as lithium ion battery Fire's produce oxygen that might take a lot of powder....
     
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  11. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
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    #31 Iceman, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    It's a bit more complicated in the UK due to various pieces of legislation in place, there is only the UKs National Fire Brigade that currently have the means to deal with such incidents, when a vehicle fire happens on the UKs motorways then the section of motorway has to be closed whilst the damaged surface is re laid, the cost to the economy from a two-hour delay on a busy stretch of motorway following a two-lane closure is £135,360, this increases to a massive £1,488,960 for a three-lane closure lasting up to four hours, then there is the disruption to the wider community through stranded vehicles unable to go about there lawful business, more importantly is the human cost through injury, or heaven forbid a fatality, makes the old magneto now sound like space age
    technology (for those of us that remember them), no battery required to start and run your motorcycle, a battery was only needed if you wanted to run lights, happy days, until the prince of darkness took hold, but that was not Mr Magneto's fault but rather that of Mr Lucas. My son could not initially get his head around how I could start my newly restored 55 T100 when the 6v battery was on the bench charging, when I took the cover of and showed him the inner workings he laughed and said "I doubt our modern machines will reach 68 years of age", and he added if they did it would cost us the same as a villa in the South of France in repairs and running costs, I think he has a point. Ride safe all from an ageing Rocker.
     
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  12. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
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    I think it was 2 or 3 years back, just before the start of the MotoGP season and the first year of the E MotoGP championship, all the bikes were parked in a special facility, some of them on charge, when one or more of them caught fire and burnt the lot down delaying their first race somewhat. I'm not sure what special procedures they have, if any, to deal with an electric bike fire during a race.
    Personally I think all the hype regarding lithium batteries has led to the assumption Li batteries are "better all round" then other choices but on a conventional road vehicle there's nothing wrong with a good quality well maintained LA battery IMO.
     
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  13. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
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    #33 Eldon, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    Once saw a brand new wagon in need of a cab respray at a place I then worked at building tri-axle tankers.
    Someone decided to weld on the trailer high above the tractor unit battery and a spark finished the job off.... kaboom, battery gone and all its contents spread far and wide. Luckily no one injured but a big bill and clean up created.
     
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  14. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
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    #34 Eldon, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    BCF extinguishers are long gone although I personally remember using one when working for the MOD.
    A very effective item but then destined for the bin like Trich, very effective but not green.... think of the ozone :rolleyes:

    A natural response to a lithium fire may be powder but I read somewhere that it shouldn't be used and wasn't effective plus water would be better on " small lithium battery" fires. Not sure what small means in this context.
    All very contradictory so I'm not sure which is best practice.
     
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  15. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

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    #35 Eldon, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
    And that's why folk that we chose, back in the good old days, a Honda C70 over the more powerful C90 for field bikes :joy:

    A C50/70 could run off its mag with no battery. With the budget at that time, zero, it was a no-brainer.
     
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  16. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
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    #36 Pegscraper, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    My old Yamaha trials bikes had magneto ignition, not sure if the new ones do. The outboard motors I've had in the past had magneto (or something similar) ignition including a brand new in 2009 Tohatsu 4 stroke. The old British 2 smoke Seagull motor had a magneto that would give you one hell of a kick if your fingers touched something they shouldn't!:joy:
     
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  17. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
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    Magneto ignition wasn’t and isn’t the only way a classic bike can run without a battery.

    My 61 Tbird that’s in the garage waiting for its phoenix moment, OE spec was 6 volt electrics, alternator and coil ignition via a distributor.

    In the late 60s I converted it to 12 volt which then required a zenner diode to dump the surplus juice in the form of heat to a heat sink and installed a Lucas 2MC capacitor.

    Outcome - Fully functioning ignition system with far less points arcing than with the feeble capacitor that used to sit inside the distributor. Plus fully working lighting system whilst the engine was running.

    I used this machine as modified for at least three years and in those days it was my only form of transport with a minimum of 300 miles per week.

    A marked improvement on the old carbide acetylene lamps.:joy:

    710969CC-48B4-4B58-8094-B70B7F1A59D5.jpeg
     
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  18. S.Cooper

    S.Cooper New Member

    I have a 2023 Tiger 1200 GT Pro which has a 12v Lithium Battery.
    I need a Battery Charger and was wondering which chargers people used, as the charger (Optimate 1) I have from previous bikes does not charge the 12v lithium battery on my Tiger.
     
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  19. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
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    I would stick with the Optimate brand. I thought my Optimate 3 had given up the ghost after 22 years service and bought myself a new Optimate 4 (because it will put out a 1 amp charge). Lo and behold, after further investigation, the original unit only had a failed LED lamp and still works. :joy:
     
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