Hilltop Vs Other Dyno

Personally i would not go within a mile of HILLTOP,took my super tenere there some years ago,paid £360 to have it remapped but i didn't notice any difference,it was just for piece of mind as i only had an end can on at the time,about a year later i got the chance to have some different downpipes and my mate was friendly with BSD tuning shop at eye nr peterborough so i took it there and he said NOTHING had been done to it,he said a remap will take 3hrs and how long was i there,answer about 40 mins[rip off bas-ard]i'm still fuming about it even now.The BSD remap made my bike fly like it had another 15-20bhp after that took my zzr14 there also.

 

I suppose if Hilltop had already made a good map for the bike, they can run it and then do
minor tweaks as opposed to a full set up. I bought a PC3 for my fireblade which was
used and sold as being set up for the bike. I fitted it myself and got a power run done. The dyno guy was amazed at just how close it was and said there was no need to alter it ! really good power and fuel/air ratio.

Hilltop have a good rep generally from what I have read and offer a service where you send you ECU to them - which I assume means they have a pretty close map already. Having said that if your bike is not improved after then it seems a waste a money ....

 

nakedbiker,how about PDQ are they closer,they were around when i had my 1st dyno tune,at the time there wasn't many around and i think they are still going,slough,maidenhead area if i remember.

 

I wished they had a money back guarantee when i had mine done,because if i'd have gone back i would have thrown my bike at him,all i can say is i have noticed a difference at other places,but not there,you trust them,now i know it needs longer than 40 mins.It must be a different person doing them now.

 

I've been wrestling with the "Hilltop vs Other" question too.
I like Tune ECU because:-
You can load / unload maps yourself.
You can see what the maps look like.
You can set the throttle bodies and do diagnostics and maintenance etc.

With Hilltop its all a blank. No idea whats going on.
If I understand it correctly once done its there for life? ie you can't undo it and revert to std without going back? Is that right?

Anyway due to the transparency of Tune ECU and the "black box" approach of Hilltop, I finally bit the bullet and went with a custom tune via Tune ECU applied by a reputable tuner, (who shall remain nameless just for now).
I attached the dyno print for info.
(The bike's a Speed triple with K&N and Arrow Lowboy btw)

If I am reading this printout correctly??
The Triumph stock tune for speed triple with low boy, 20524, was very good?
and the new Custom tune is a slight improvement?
I was told the max revs were increased from 9450 to 9900 rpm which partially explains why my new max 129 bhp was at 9500 rpm whereas the previous max of 123 bhp was at 9300 rpm, so I appreciated the honesty of the tuner on this point, as anyone will get a bigger max number if the revs are increased.
I clearly have gained a bit of torque mid range up from 73 ft/lb @ 7800rpm to 77 ft/lb @ 6800rpm which is at 1000rpm lower than before!
(This is good right?)
Did a quick squirt this afters to try it and it feels great.
(Was OK before mind).
Compared the new map with the previous one on Tune ECU and there are clear differences so I am confident I have got a true custom map.
Need to do some miles to get a better feel for it, but would appreciate any comments on what this printout really means as its all new to me.
Cheers
Taff

 

Looks like a well worthwhile improvement if both taken on same dyno on same day. Increasing max RPM may be risky as the load on piston rods etc. goes up a lot with engine speed but I guess you are not going to spend must time at 9900 rpm.. Its good if you have options. With the later bikes you cannot do the ECU upload/changes so its either PowerCommander or Hilltop... looks a good result anyway

 

Thanks for the comments folks.
I am no expert in all this ecu mapping malarkey but I sort of can read a graph.
I think the 2014 map I had was pretty good as the torque was even and the bop was steady across the rev range so the dyno reinforced my feeling that the bike was fairly good already. The custom map has not changed anything significantly but it has been upped a tad which is fine.
Apparently the 1050 triple is well over engineered so the increase from max 9450 to 9900 is probably no problem. The beauty of tune ecu is I can easily reduce it myself if I can’t trust my right hand.
At this stage (no experience of any mileage) I feel quite pleased.
All this came about after test riding a new speed triple rs.
The torque of that was quite something but the cost of trading the 2014 was astronomical and an engineering tune would have got the same / more for a much lower price plus I would still retain “user interference”.
I’m sticking with what I’ve got.
Love the Speed Triple and love fiddling with it.
Taff

 

Worth noting the RS also had lower gearing so that maybe the way to go to for that same feeling ?

 

I wish I understood what Hilltop actually does.
At least I can see it on tune ecu although I don’t understand it!

 

The new speed triple RS did feel like I was one gear down on the 2014 R, so you could be onto something there.
Triumph claim 150bhp for the new RS and 130bhp for the old R and I really thought I could feel that difference on the test ride, which started me off on this tuning business, so I don’t think it is just gearing.
The dyno does show I can just about scrape 130bhp flat chat which is ample for road use.
Anyway I’m keeping my old bike. The difference was not enough to justify the cost and the locked ecu etc closes the door for me. If I needed 150+ bhp I could get it and more with a head skim and new cams for a fraction of the cost of a new RS but I’ll never use it so I’m sticking with the 2014 R for the time being. It’s one of those “keepers” if you know what I mean? It intoxicates me and I can’t give it up!
Taff

 

Looking at your graphs and riding it between 7000 and 8500 should give a very rewarding ride.

Do you really need to race it to the red line?

A good improvement across the board there and I'd be happy if it were mine.

 

mines is a 2014 Andy, one of the last ones to have the PVM wheels

 

Ditto. Mines a 2014 with PVM wheels too. Got it running as well as it can so that will do me.
Taff

 

Look at post #12 in this link https://www.thetriumphforum.com/threads/rs-with-hilltop-software.17463/
The gains at the bottom is what it’s all about, top end gains are fine for the track, midrange is where we use them on the road. Mine is so smooth picking up from a closed throttle it burbles like a two stroke on carbs. I hardly need to rev beyond 8000, all the good useable torque is available right there.
Ps this is for an RS but there are torque graphs on here for the S and R models that I couldn’t find but the gains are the same.

 

Here's one for a 2017 S Speed with Lowboy done by Hilltop.

 

I’m no expert but the newer bikes certainly seem to benefit significantly in the lower rev range. Mine was ok already so I’m pleased to know it was alright before the custom map and is even better now.
Took it for a squirt over the Brecon Beacons this morning and it rides beautifully.
Well pleased.
I didn’t say who tuned it earlier as I wanted to be sure I was happy with it.
Well now I am well chuffed I can recommend T3-Racing.
Taff

 

Am I correct in thinking the triumph tune (blue) is pretty much as good as the new custom tune (red)???
Just to be clear I’m pleased with the dyno print either way, since I did not know before I had the bike dyno’d whether it was ok or not, so I have no issue with the tuner.
I wanted to know where I was before and after and now I think I was ok before the custom tune.
Which would you go for?
The blue line (factory) or the red line (custom)?
As far as I can tell the bike runs tip top either way.
I have noticed the O2 sensor is on with the Triumph tune and off with the custom tune.
Does it matter??
Cheers
Taff

 

Thanks Little Ade.
Bike certainly rides well.
I was curious whether to switch the O2 sensor back on or not?
I suppose it was disabled deliberately so will leave it switched off.
This thread was all about “Hilltop vs Other.”
This is why I prefer “Other”
I can change it at will.
If I had gone with Hilltop the change would have been permanent and irreversible.
(I supposed Geoff would reverse it on request?)
Pleased I did this now as I can see where I am. I can compare tunes on tune ecu and see precisely which values are different too, although I won’t be dabbling with any of these values myself.
Taff.