First 2023 Bonnie T120 Problem

Discussion in 'Bonneville' started by RickM46, Nov 14, 2023.

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  1. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    A Funny Thing Happened On The Way to the Bonnie (Forum, you know the movie).
    Went out to the garage this AM and found that the de-mobilizer light was not flashing.
    Inserted key and turned ignition on/off and flashing light resumed. Hmmmm.

    Then, ignition on, tested the turn indicators - they did not turn on.
    Then tested the emergency flashers - they did not turn on.
    Headlight high/low and tail lights and brake light worked.
    Engine started; did a short ride; engine OK; still no flashers. Hmmmm.

    Now what. What changed. Scratch head. Latest change was charging the battery with my new Triumph Optimate 2amp battery charger all day till bed time when I disconnected it; had 2 green lights. OK, something with the battery???? I disconnected the neg lead from the battery and waited about 20 seconds and reconnected it. Everything back to normal, turn indicators worked, must have done a reset????
     
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  2. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    197
    93
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    The immobiliser light only flashes for 24 hours so if it was stood for longer it is normal for the light to stop. Can't explain the indicators though ?
     
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  3. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    28
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    #3 RickM46, Nov 14, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2023
    Thanks TX, that helps, didn't know about the 24 hr limit!!

    One more possibility: been fooling around with the information/scroll button; tried holding the button in and then switching the ignition key on. That allows you to scroll thru 5 Types but I have not been able to find any documentation on what the 5 Types mean or how to manipulate them. Anybody know??
     
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  4. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    197
    93
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    I am a Speed Triple owner so not familiar with the T120 controls but the information should be in the Owners Manual that came with the bike.
     
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  5. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    Thanks TX, looked thru the online pdf but found nothing; will give it another shot; will also look at the printed version that came with the bike; else, call my Triumph dealer in Battle Creek.
     
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  6. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    Well, scoured the pdf and the hard copy owners manual that came with the T120; no mention of holding the scroll button in and then switching the ignition key on and scrolling thru the 5 Types; will call dealer next.
     
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  7. RevPaul

    RevPaul Senior Member

    Apr 21, 2020
    660
    193
    Cheshire, UK
    #7 RevPaul, Nov 15, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2023
    As @TRIPLE X said the immobiliser light only flashes for the first 24hrs. Your problem with the indicators may be down to the wiring loom being over stretched at the headstock which can lead to fractured wires due to turning the handlebars from full lock to full lock. This has been a known problem for Triumph's modern Bonnevilles, although they claim to have revised the loom.

    My Street Cup's indicators did the same thing as you're describing about six months from new, even though it was supposed to have been made with the improved loom fitted and therefore not covered by their product recall.

    I went back to the dealers and gently but firmly ensured they knew I was aware of Triumph's harness problems and asked for a new loom (not a repair) under warranty, which they did without fuss.

    Take a look at the main wiring loom on the left of the headstock (as you sit on the bike) and turn the bars from full left to full right and watch what happens. There may be some signs of the binding tape pulling apart or even exposed or broken wires. It has been know for some Bonnevilles to develop ignition / running problems due to the same design fault.

    The scroll button trick that you've found is for Triumph's LED indicator sets that they offer as an accessory replacement for the normal incandescent bulb type indicators: It allows for the difference in resistance between a LED bulb and a normal bulb and adjusts the frequency with which the ECU flashes the indicators. If your indicators have failed due to broken wires, changing that setting will have no effect.

    Hope that helps, while the bike is under warranty it's always best to involve the dealers.

    Hope you can get back to enjoying the ride.
     
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  8. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    28
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    RevPaul thanks for the info on the loom; will look at the wires at the steering head and see if there is any fracturing.
     
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  9. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    Thanks RevPaul,
    Took a look at the loom on both sides of the steering head from right and left lock points; there is multiple wiring in protective sheaths on both sides of the steering head held secure by keepers on both sides; at each extreme lock point, there is no looseness of the wiring AND there is just a few millimeters of slack where the wiring is easily moveable with your fingers. I saw no shredding or damage to the sheaths covering the wiring so far - only have just over 100 miles on the bike.

    Also, as a test, I turned on the hazard flashers and then turn signals while moving the handlebar back and forth to the lock positions; no issues.

    BUT, good advice, will keep an eye on the wiring there. 'I pity' the folks on the assembly line that have to install the wiring - just millimeters of slack in the loom everywhere on the bike with a multitude of keepers.
     
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  10. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    28
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    Rev Paul,
    Finally clicked; I was messing with the scroll button as mentioned above; must have messed into that LED business you mentioned; the disconnection of the negative lead from the battery reset the ECU back to factory.

    The Triumph battery charger had nothing to do with the situation; I have connected it three times and disconnected with no issues.

    Maybe one day, there will be documentation on what holding the scroll button in and then turning the ignition on does.
    Happy Camper
     
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  11. RevPaul

    RevPaul Senior Member

    Apr 21, 2020
    660
    193
    Cheshire, UK
    The documentation does exist, its in the instructions for fitting their Accessory LED indicators. Go to Triumph Instructions.com and type in the number for the accessory LED indicators A9838032; its all there.

    Triumph won't publicise that sort of information unless necessary to avoid encouraging people fiddling with the set up of their bikes.

    Triumph Instructions is a good place for information on how our bikes are put together. Triumph's modern classics range are all built very similarly, even if some parts are different (Triumph aren't going to reinvent the wheel with every model). So spending some time in the configurator pages of the Triumph website and trawling through the list of official accessories for the modern classics can mine out all sorts of useful info. Just put the part numbers into Triumph Instructions and download the instructions.

    For example, I downloaded the instructions for the fender removal kit and the T100/120 grabrail and the combined information effectively told me how to swap my Street Cup fender, rear light and indicators for the T100 fender, rear light and indicators and so then be able to fit the T100/120 grabrail and removable rear rack.

    Or, before I got my Haynes workshop manual I needed to know the torque values for the engine side casings. I looked up the instructions for the cover fixings kit and there they all are:).

    Hope that helps. Cheers
     
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  12. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    Rev Paul, thanks a million for the info on the scroll button and Triumph instructions; saved the info as bookmarks in my browser; your experience with Triumphs is greatly appreciated; will turn to enjoying my T120!:cool:
     
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  13. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    28
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    RevPaul, you mentioned that you have a Haynes workshop manual; in my research, I saw that Haynes only covered years 2015-2019 for the Bonnie. What year is your Bonnie?
     
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  14. RevPaul

    RevPaul Senior Member

    Apr 21, 2020
    660
    193
    Cheshire, UK
    Mine’s a 2018.

    I suspect 2020 onwards is when Triumph started building engines to Euro5 compliance as opposed to Euro4. On the 900 engined bikes you can tell the difference by looking at the No. plugs on the ECU, located under the saddle behind the battery; if there’s 2 then it’s Euro4 (like mine), if there’s 3 then it’s Euro5. 2020 is also when the 900 engines got an extra 10bhp.

    I doubt there’s much difference in how a 2015 onwards water-cooled Bonneville is put together, so the Haynes manual will probably be fine in most situations. I don’t know if Triumph used the Euro5 change as an opportunity to upgrade suspension, brakes, or mechanical parts in the 1200 engines, if they did that’s where the manual won’t help.

    Someone else with a 2020 or later T120 in this Forum like @learningtofly might know if Triumph changed anything crucial. You could also try your local dealer to see what upgrades may have been fitted to your 2023 steed.

    Hope this helps:).
     
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  15. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
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    Thanks RevPaul, my T120 ECU definitely has 3 plugs; got the DealerTool OBD module a week ago and it has no trouble reading my ECU - nifty tool; I will contact Haynes and see if they have any upgrades to their 2016- 2019 shop manual.
     
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  16. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    197
    93
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    You could use Triumph's online manual: triumphtechnicalinformation.com
    It's a subscription service and the cost depends on how long you spend browsing. I have not used it for a while but it should not cost much for a quick look.
     
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  17. learningtofly

    learningtofly He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!
    Subscriber

    Sep 25, 2018
    1,971
    1,000
    Hertfordshire
    Just some refinements to meet Euro 5 and some new colours, so far as I'm aware. There's been some chopping and changing on standard items like cruise control, heated grips and centre stand; the latest model dropped the two latter for the former.
     
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  18. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
    40
    28
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    Thanks for the info TX; I have registered at the above Triumph website successfully but when I log in I get an error message that sez I do not have a subscription.

    The website does not provide a way to buy a subscription; does anyone know where to go to buy???
     
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  19. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    197
    93
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    After you login you need to enter details for your bike before you can pay the subscription fee.
     
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  20. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
    40
    28
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    Still no luck; entered my VIN, still get error message and no path to buy a subscription.
     
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