Thruxton Thruxton R Power Commander 5 Custom Map

Discussion in 'Thruxton, Scrambler & Trident' started by Flashp, Oct 7, 2018.

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  1. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
    595
    343
    Hants
    #1 Flashp, Oct 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    I had the TTR fitted with a power commander and custom mapped Saturday, it was already sporting an X pipe and US spec V&H silencers. The popping on throttle closure has 95% gone (not unhappy about that although I never disliked it) and the snatchy throttle is a thing of the past, although I thought it wasn't too bad beforehand in all honesty, it's way better now and the bike is beautifully compliant on the throttle. A good thing really since the UK weather Saturday in the south was disgusting...extremely wet. The bike was left in road mode and was an absolute peach with town riding and dual carriageway at NSL (~70mph)

    Had dry weather today and once I'd got all the crud off from yesterday I had a short run out. Without waffling on I'll just say it feels significantly stronger and more refined. Showing about 52mpg and still rising while not riding particularly gently. MPG log took a battering on the Dyno :laughing:

    Prior to this, it had had the 12 minute tune applied a few weeks ago as recommended - O2 sensors still installed. For interest I'm sharing the before and after plots. The torque increase across the range is very apparent when it's ridden. Not sure that the 12 min tune is quite all it's cracked up to be. The tech noted that it was getting hotter than he thought it should, all good once adjustments made though.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Steveoexige

    Steveoexige New Member

    May 22, 2018
    6
    3
    Sevenoaks
    Well done those figures look great, especially the increase in torque so much lower down the rev range. Which tuner did the mapping?
     
  3. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,052
    750
    western Australia
    That motor will be so much more pleasant and compliant to ride ! Power everywhere !! And if there is no flat spot's or any snatchy spot's, it will be very smooth handling on any road surface, predictability is a great asset when riding at full throttle / concentration on a windey road.

    I find my 09 America is better in this way since getting it "tuned" McCOLL.jpg
     
  4. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
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    #4 Flashp, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    It's a good wedge of torque across a useful rev range isn't it. Steve Jordan Motorcycles did the work, they're at Great Bookham. Contact details on the Dyno plots ;).
    They actually took a call to quote for the same job on another Thruxton while I was there coincidentally. Mine was the first they'd done although I imagine they've seen this engine before. I arrived at 9-00 and was on my way home by 2-00'ish. Never enjoyed a ride in miserable conditions so much, they're 51 miles from me. :D
     
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  5. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
    595
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    I bet the engineers that design the software would prefer not to be confined with Euro 4 regs. The most disturbing thing about my 'before' map was the overly lean AFR, it's all over the place. There's where damage can happen.
     
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  6. Glyn Phillips

    Glyn Phillips Old’N’Slow

    Jun 21, 2018
    967
    750
    Essex
    You’re before AFR would be miles away because the cat had been removed, had you blanked the o2 sensors at that point as the fuel map would be totally confused so I totally understand the messy map.
    The Power commander once set sorts your issues, like you said earlier, don’t get to hang up on Power gains it also applies for the “perfect “ air fuel ratio as when set spot on,like a lot of tuners go for you usually end up with a snatchy throttle response.as the perfect ratio is very close to lean, I personally like my engines set slightly leaning towards the higher fuel less air ratio as this smooths the throttle response right out although not giving max BHP it feels so much nicer.
     
  7. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
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    #7 Flashp, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    I agree with you on this. On the before AFR trace my point was that many advocate the '12 minute tune' as a solution to setting the tuning straight after a de-cat etc. I don't think this is all it's thought to be, which is what this trace shows. For the before plot the O2 sensors were still in place and connected. My AFR trace on the finished tune is somewhere below 14.7 for the most part so it's probably considered on the rich side. I have a beautifully 'elastic' throttle now and this bias is good for the engine long term.
     
  8. mentalist

    mentalist Active Member

    Sep 28, 2016
    101
    28
    wigan
    #8 mentalist, Mar 9, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    Got a couple of questions for you.
    When they are running the bike on the dyno, do they run in and tune it in the different ride modes, or doesn't it matter?
    Also do they turn off the traction control for the runs?
    Curious because I've got mine booked in at the end of the month, been running the PCV standard map for 12 months, really happy with it, but feel there is still room for improvement. Running V&H, Xpipe, quick shifter and snorkle removed.
     
  9. Glyn Phillips

    Glyn Phillips Old’N’Slow

    Jun 21, 2018
    967
    750
    Essex
    I’d like to help, but I’m in the process of fitting mine at the mo,but I’d imagine the one map will do all three modes.
    Don’t hold me to that though
     
  10. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
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    #10 Flashp, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Rider modes stay - should have amended this a long time ago : unamused:

    What I'd say on rider modes, and this is only my opinion, is that with good mapping being so difficult within the constraints Euro4 regs, manufacturers can have a bike with a snappy throttle that would otherwise be unacceptable and call it 'sport mode' then, to soften things up, they can allow themselves to be affected by these regulations and call a sub-optimal map 'road mode' and the end user will accept this because they still have 'sport' available to them. Then there's 'rain mode' where they can make your bike even more linear at the cost of power.

    A good custom map with PC5 will give you a throttle that I can best describe as 'elastic'. I rode mine home from mapping in atrocious conditions for 51 miles and it was no bother at all.

    I'd also assume they turn TC off so as not to affect the dyno readings although I never asked but assumed they know what they're doing.
     
  11. mentalist

    mentalist Active Member

    Sep 28, 2016
    101
    28
    wigan
    Had the bike dyno tuned on Friday,
    Sports mode with traction and abs turned off.
    95bhp, (85.5 lbs-ft) (115 nm) torque max speed 140.2 mph
    Really pleased, thought the bike went well before.

    20190329_101650.jpg

    FB_IMG_1554070998795.jpg
     
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  12. TonyG

    TonyG Noble Member

    Dec 1, 2016
    720
    443
    Bucks
    My Thruxton feels fine to me in all modes, I have a decat and Westlake silencers with baffle in. I guess there's always room for improvement though, is there a general consensus on dyno tuning, is it worth it? Do you need the power commander and how much does it cost?

    Cheers
     
  13. Glyn Phillips

    Glyn Phillips Old’N’Slow

    Jun 21, 2018
    967
    750
    Essex
    It really depends if you’re happy with how your bikes feels, leave it as is.
    My bike as it is isn’t great it is most definitely running really lean until the very top end and then turns really rich right before the redline. So for me not good,the lean part makes the throttle snatchy.

    I’ve since bought straight through pipes and a power commander, I just haven’t got around to fitting them.
    The power commander route does give you exactly what you want, but the cost isn’t really justified if you’re happy with your bike
     
  14. TonyG

    TonyG Noble Member

    Dec 1, 2016
    720
    443
    Bucks
    Thanks Glyn,

    I am happy with it, can't tell if it is running lean though, does pop on the overrun, but I'm not too worried.

    As it feels fine I'll probably just leave it.

    Brakes, suspension, engine, they are all fine,I'm just looking for things to tinker with. Must stop!
     
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  15. Glyn Phillips

    Glyn Phillips Old’N’Slow

    Jun 21, 2018
    967
    750
    Essex
    I did say I was going to leave mine standard, but I just can’t be trusted when it comes to tinkering :)
     
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  16. Craig Love

    Craig Love New Member

    May 11, 2020
    13
    3
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Flashp, which X-pipe are you running? I just got a Speed Twin and want to do this upgrade along with V&H slip-ons. Are our motors the same? Great results by the way!
    Thanks,
    Craig
     
  17. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
    595
    343
    Hants
    Hi Craig, I have an X pipe from Norman Hyde. I originally bought a TEC one but the fit was a country mile off, it was truly terrible and was never going to fit properly. The NH part by contrast was a perfect fit.

    If you're going to have a custom map make sure that whatever silencers you choose make sure the probes from the Dyno can get get down there. You could buy standard Thruxton silencers for comparatively little and do what's becoming known as a 'bafflectomy'. You'd probably get these for under £120. If going with V&H try and find the US spec ones, they have removable baffles. You could always cut the baffles out of the EU spec parts (they're not removable) but you'd cutting into expensive parts.

    I couldn't say if they exactly the same motors, is yours Euro 4 or 5 compliant?

    Try these Facebook groups, you may find the parts you're looking for:
    Thruxton 1200 1200R Group

    Triumph Thruxton R Owners Group
     
  18. Craig Love

    Craig Love New Member

    May 11, 2020
    13
    3
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Hey Flashp,

    Thanks for the info. The V&H were ordered when I bought the bike. Hopefully they'll show up soon. I put 500 miles on it so I need to do the first oil change. I'll start beating on it more at this point at higher rpm to see how it feels and sounds and then I'll start the mods. Seems like everyone is getting the Meerkat but I was liking the Motone. I am not sure which one to order. I am in California, so I am assuming I have US Spec coming. I was set on TEC and then read a lot about misalignment. So now I don't know! I want perfect fit, awesome sound, and increased power. I will eventually get a PCV and possibly have Factory Pro tune it. They are close to me and I used their dyno to test previous carburated bikes after I tuned them with their jet and needle kits, including my dad's 01 Bonneville. Started out in the 14's in the 1/4 and have gotten it down to 12.60!

    Thanks,
    Craig
     
  19. Flashp

    Flashp Noble Member

    Dec 6, 2017
    595
    343
    Hants
    I didn't notice your location initially :rolleyes:

    I think almost any will do provided the mechanical fit is good. NH parts use the CAT mounting pints which I liked the idea of. Although there's next to no weight to an X pipe it does stabilize the whole system in the same way. Some say you don't need the support but in the absence of failure mode and stress analysis it's surely sensible to replicate the fixing method. This is how I thought it through but this is obviously personal choice. I'd rather have something mechanically sound than modified and shiny. Again, personal choice.

    I'm no expert but I think there's no difference in performance of these things (X pipes) although some seem convinced that there is. Interestingly, they may be convinced on this but evidence such as Dyno results from a calibrated machine to show gains/losses between the brands is thin on the ground.

    The only other fundamentally different approach would be to use headers but they're significantly more expensive.

    You obviously have tuning experience! :)
     
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  20. dav.a

    dav.a Well-Known Member

    Jul 29, 2018
    158
    93
    Argyll
    I see you have a quickshifter fitted. Do you think it makes a big improvement and what one do you have on the bike
     
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