Throttle Setting

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Dave Teece, Feb 3, 2024.

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  1. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    Evening, all.
    Does anyone have a list of bits needed to set up the fuel tank, and power the pump, so as to adjust the throttles? 675 Street has been poor recently, missing at low throttle position. Had the plugs out today, all good. Coils checked, good resistance and insulation. Bluetooth OBD scan showed no error codes but cylinder one reading was 940pHa, two and three are 820. Would that be enough drift to cause poor running?
    Cheers, guys.
     
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  2. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
    4,141
    800
    North Yorkshire
    The engine sees most vacuum on a closed throttle, so your readings would have most effect on idle i.e. lumpy.
    Matching the cylinders would certainly smooth the idle up but it depends on what your other symptoms are, at other throttle positions, as to whether that is the full answer?
     
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  3. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,002
    800
    Yorkshire
    Have the valve clearances been checked and in spec?Incorrect or widely varying clearances can affect low speed vacuum readings. Throttle balancing is the last item to be checked on a service/tune up. I had a similar bad idle problem years ago on a Yamaha and it turned out some of the clearances were too tight with some actually closed up completely when hot.
    Modern EFI bikes with in-tank mounted fuel pumps certainly makes things a bit more awkward. When I did the throttle balancing on my ZZR I rigged up a tank support from some bits of wood to hold the tank clear of the bike to give access to the balance adjusters which works well if the fuel pipe and pump wiring are long enough.
     
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  4. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    Good morning, Eldon, thanks for your thoughts. I don't feel any issues when opening the tap, it pulls well (as best as I perceive). While filtering, on the daily commute, it is most pronounced, up to around 2,500 rpm.
     
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  5. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    Morning, Pegscraper. The bike had a major Triumph service around 18 months ago when the valves should have been done. Whether they were or not is open to debate I guess. I don't have a garage (the shed is full of other stuff, after being built specifically as workshop : unamused:) so I may have to speak nicely to some friends and peruse that line of investigation. I did tackle my Sprint RS valves many years ago, I distinctly remember the pain of removing, and refitting, the cam cover :sob:
     
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  6. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
    2,003
    1,000
    Lancashire
    Hi Dave, as you have an OBD you should be able to balance the throttle bodies from that, I only use the Dealer Tool for Triumph's, it only costs £60 and I just balance the throttle bodies from my laptop, for those familiar with the DT, it has all the functions that a Triumph dealership use. I would start by ensuring the TPS is set correct, and then balance the TBs, you will see right away if any are out, and then look at more complex reasons, going back to the Dealer Tool, this will show any stored faults, these faults do not always show up on the dash, and it gives you a good base to work from, it may well be a valve adjustment issue, but go with the most straightforward first and work up. I have come across a couple of cases like this that was down to a fuel tank breather pipe kinked when the fuel tank was put back on, often people will remove the rear fastner and front fixings and prop up the tank rather than removing it completely, then when lowering the tank it can risk pinching those pipes, especially when it has a half or even full tank of fuel.
     
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  7. Florian320

    Florian320 Member
    Subscriber

    Dec 14, 2023
    34
    13
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Where can you get the dealer tool?
     
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  8. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
    2,003
    1,000
    Lancashire
    Have a look at the website and order it direct, once the unit arrives download the software from the Dealer Tool website, once done they will e mail you a code, cut and paste the code onto the downloaded software, then plug the unit into the diagnostic lead under the seat and the unit will read the ECU and confirm connection, you are then free to carry out all functions. I have attached some information below that may help.
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    Thanks, Iceman. No fault codes logged, even when battery voltage is low and it causes a restart of the fuel system and clocks. Booked in with Triumph for some help.
     
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  10. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
    2,003
    1,000
    Lancashire
    Hi Dave, hope it goes well, keep the forum updated on your progress.
     
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  11. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    First off, apologies for the slow update.
    Where am I, right now? Dropped the ST at the dealership a couple of weeks back and the result of the investigation was underwhelming. Possible charging problem!? and no real insight into the poor running. As an example, fitted a freshly charged battery last Tuesday and it managed to start the bike six times before saying 'that's enough'. For context, five of those occasions had ten mile rides between them. A thousand pounds to change the stator and rectifier, parts and labour. I don't think so. The only lead was the suggestion that the rubber connectors between throttle bodies and intake manifold could be suspect for the running problem. That isn't unreasonable as I had them off when changing the oil pressure switch but this issue didn't start right away. They could have moved slightly now, with use, allowing a leak of some sort, yes.. So, I had another session beneath the fuel tank and managed to measure the stator windings. Each one read 0.6 ohms which, although Haynes say Triumph don't quote a figure, they were consistent with each other, I think that is a win. I did look at checking the rectifier but, with the frame in the way, I couldn't just pull the wiring off and the rear suspension makes removing the unit a pain without exactly the correct combination of ratchet and socket length combination. The tech did refit the the clutch switch that I had removed during the previous 'non-cranking' episode. His advice was that the ECU monitors the clutch action, besides at the start sequence - I'm sceptical but don't know, myself. I still aim to try and test the regulator but, having no garage, I'm at the mercy of the weather gods.
     
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  12. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    First off, apologies for the slow update.
    Where am I, right now? Dropped the ST at the dealership a couple of weeks back and the result of the investigation was underwhelming. Possible charging problem!? and no real insight into the poor running. As an example, fitted a freshly charged battery last Tuesday and it managed to start the bike six times before saying 'that's enough'. For context, five of those occasions had ten mile rides between them. A thousand pounds to change the stator and rectifier, parts and labour. I don't think so. The only lead was the suggestion that the rubber connectors between throttle bodies and intake manifold could be suspect for the running problem. That isn't unreasonable as I had them off when changing the oil pressure switch but this issue didn't start right away. They could have moved slightly now, with use, allowing a leak of some sort, yes.. So, I had another session beneath the fuel tank and managed to measure the stator windings. Each one read 0.6 ohms which, although Haynes say Triumph don't quote a figure, they were consistent with each other, I think that is a win. I did look at checking the rectifier but, with the frame in the way, I couldn't just pull the wiring off and the rear suspension makes removing the unit a pain without exactly the correct combination of ratchet and socket length combination. The tech did refit the the clutch switch that I had removed during the previous 'non-cranking' episode. His advice was that the ECU monitors the clutch action, besides at the start sequence - I'm sceptical but don't know, myself. I still aim to try and test the regulator but, having no garage, I'm at the mercy of the weather gods.
     
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  13. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
    2,003
    1,000
    Lancashire
    The reg/rec is known to be weak and give problems, I suspect that may well be the issue with yours.
     
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  14. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    226
    93
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    Has the battery discharged?
     
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  15. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    I tend to agree, Iceman. Testing in situ is a pain, I'll get one ordered. I recall reading somewhere, as with a Kawasaki brake switches being a straight swap, there is an alternative fit for regulators but can't remember where it was now.
     
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  16. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    I think the problem is a system charging one and the batteries I have are now not managing as well having to do more work when the bike is running. Yuasa have been my go to make but I may try a Motobat this time.
     
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  17. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
    4,141
    800
    North Yorkshire
    So whats the battery voltage, when running, now on your freshly charged battery?
     
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  18. sprintdave

    sprintdave Nurse,he's out of bed again

    May 25, 2014
    1,495
    750
    Birmingham
    Yuasa are just as good as Motobatt as long as the amp hour and cca are the same. I've gone the reverse way when a Motobatt packed up in cold weather, never again.
     
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  19. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    I'll have to revisit that when I have time between work and the weather.
     
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  20. Dave Teece

    Dave Teece Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2016
    173
    93
    South Essex
    So...I had a mobile mechanic visit on Saturday. Long story short, the Street is behaving like a Triple again. Starts a treat and is running well. The throttle cable was inexplicably taught and seemed to have the position sensor confused. Charging, as it turns out, was the stator although I had measured the three phases for resistance.

    20240402_153828.jpg
     
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