Featured Starting problems and fixes

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by crispey, Nov 12, 2015.

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  1. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme

    Nov 6, 2014
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    #1 crispey, Nov 12, 2015
    Thought I'd share this with you

    Starting System Symptoms:

    Weak battery symptoms:
    -- Slow cranking.
    -- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
    -- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
    Repair:
    -- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
    Failure Modes:
    -- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
    -- Won't hold a charge.
    -- Low voltage/cell failure.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Check fluid levels regularly
    -- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

    Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
    -- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
    -- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
    -- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
    Repair:
    -- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None
    Testing:

    Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
    -- No spark at all
    -- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
    -- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
    Repair:
    -- Replace pickup coil
    Failure mode:
    -- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None. Get a spare.
    Testing:
    -- Ohms checks hot and cold.

    Worn starter symptoms:
    -- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
    -- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
    -- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
    Repair:
    -- Rebuild or replace.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
    -- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

    Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
    -- Very loud rattling when cranking
    -- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
    Falure Mode:
    -- Breakage
    Repair:
    -- Replace sprag clutch
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

    Worn starter solenoid:
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    -- Won't crank after rocking bike.
    -- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
    Failure mode:
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
    -- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None.
    Repair:
    -- Replace starter solenoid.
    Testing:
    -- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.
     
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  2. sprintdave

    sprintdave Nurse,he's out of bed again

    May 25, 2014
    1,532
    750
    Birmingham
    #2 sprintdave, Nov 12, 2015
    very useful stuff there mate,cheers
     
  3. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #3 PETER CLARKE, Dec 1, 2015
     
  4. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
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    Essex
    #4 PETER CLARKE, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
    And apparently on modern bikes CAN-BUS failure

    Repair
    stealer visit and bank loan
     
  5. Tigcraft

    Tigcraft Unheard of Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    2,617
    800
    Holmfirth West Yorkshire
    #5 Tigcraft, Dec 1, 2015
    To
    Too bloody true!
     
  6. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #6 PETER CLARKE, Dec 1, 2015
    What was the gremlin that did this to your electrics ???
     
  7. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #7 Sceptic Al, Dec 2, 2015
    Thanks for that chap. Very useful and most appropriate at the moment as it seems my 05 Speedmaster has developed an ignition fault after being in the garage for a couple of weeks.
    Fuel on, switched it on, pushed the go button, engine spun over the rev counter went round to 7000rpm and stuck there, no brum brum. Full battery, no sparks at the plugs and no time to start prodding connectors and relays until next week. Still it'll keep me out of the way of 'her in doors'.
     
  8. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme

    Nov 6, 2014
    7,225
    1,000
    Uk
    #8 crispey, Dec 2, 2015
  9. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #9 Sceptic Al, Dec 3, 2015
    No matey I'm not too keen on it either
     
  10. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #10 PETER CLARKE, Dec 5, 2015
    Where the hell are you going to start trying to find this electrical fault, what did garage do to it ?? is it a trapped or pinched wiring harness ???
     
  11. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #11 Sceptic Al, Dec 6, 2015
    Gawd knows!!!. But now I have time to have a proper look I'll just go through the ignition system with a multi-metre and check each bit at a time. It could just be a pinched cable, or just a series of bad connectors. Still it'll keep me out of her way for a bit :confused:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #12 PETER CLARKE, Dec 6, 2015
    Could be mice they seem to like wiring have a look around to see if you can see any sign of them being around in your garage or green corrosion or damp in multiplug connections on you bike but first check battery and connection the most obvious earthing points, wish you luck and keep us all posted.
     
  13. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #13 Sceptic Al, Dec 7, 2015
    Spent the day with multi-meter and switch cleaner and scratching my noggin. All the wiring seems sound and no obvious faults apart from some muck. The igniter checks out, there is a resistance and the air gap is within tolerance. The LT side of the coils, HT leads and plug caps all check out, (resistances within spec's), but nowt on HT side? so there's one possible?. Seems there's no obvious way to check the ignition unit so can't see if it's FUBAR'd or not. No signs of mouses at all.
     
  14. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #14 PETER CLARKE, Dec 7, 2015
    Hi don't sound good was bike cleaned before putting away in garage ???
     
  15. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #15 Sceptic Al, Dec 7, 2015
    Well as was running fine and it gets a regular good clean whenever I've been out and it lives in the garage between runs anyway. As I wasn't planning to lay it up for winter, I like to get out as often as possible even when it's real brass monkeys, I didn't prep it for storage. Because the weather was been so crap, wind, rain, both at the same time it didn't get run for about 3 weeks before all this started but was connected to the optimate and the battery was topped up regularly. The more I think about it I'm starting to think about paying mega-bucks for a new ignition unit as I can't believe both coils would pack up at the same time.
     
  16. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #16 PETER CLARKE, Dec 7, 2015
    If you are sure battery is ok and no water has got into wiring connectors after a cleaning and put away in garage, it may have been the battery charger has spiked your electrics was battery disconnected for charging.
     
  17. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #17 PETER CLARKE, Dec 7, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  18. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme

    Nov 6, 2014
    7,225
    1,000
    Uk
    #18 crispey, Dec 7, 2015
  19. PETER CLARKE

    PETER CLARKE Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2015
    301
    120
    Essex
    #19 PETER CLARKE, Dec 8, 2015
    Fingers crossed lets hope its a cure for sceptic al
     
  20. Sceptic Al

    Sceptic Al Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2015
    583
    93
    Northwest Frontier of England
    #20 Sceptic Al, Dec 8, 2015
    Cheers chap. I'll take a look;)
     
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