The truth on one page: Your local Gauleiters are telling you who you can meet and what you can buy. Every tinpot closet dictator has a platform granted by SAGE who ain’t. They are dead wrong. Here is the objective truth (on the right) from the bloke who headed a big pharma research programme and has directly challenged Vallance for peddling things he must know to be untrue (on the left)
And before anyone pipes up ‘But what about all the new cases?’ Remember the 3 lads detained in Italy for nearly 3 months because they kept testing positive waaaay past any point when they might have remained infectious? The ‘test’ results are part of the lie and massively inflate live cases. This is no longer just about a virus but about saving face and concealment.
Wait till someone you know reports they have it and they've been in hospital. Knowing well they were fit and healthy, now they're a shadow. Maybe then, maybe, the inaccuracies will change your tune, maybe
That is actually irrelevant (although members of my family have all had it) as have friends, one with complications. The issues are: 1. The flat refusal of the Government and SAGE to look towards Sweden or engage with Dr Mike Yeadon who is MORE qualified than the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer. Why? Aside from Vallance and Whitty most of the ‘scientists’ are mathematicians or social scientists - not clinicians or epidemiologists. They promote models over evidence. 2. The consequences of an utterly disproportionate Covid response on society, the economy and other NHS health provision and consequent avoidable deaths. You think me a zealot but I am certainly no ostrich. My aim is not to persuade so much as get a few more to question. The holes then start to appear.
At least in the UK you have some semblance of serious mitigation being utilized. Here in the States we still have folks equating any remediation as being somehow lacking in masculinity. Recently lost my brother-in-law to Covid; not a pretty sight.
Mitigation? Do you mean shielding the vulnerable? I have no time for machismo nonsense but, on its own, Covid kills very few and almost none of the healthy. Like pneumonia and influenza it picks off those with other co-morbidities. The straw that breaks the camel’s back is ultimately less responsible than the load of bricks. My condolences nonetheless. We just need better perspective and context.
Typical bs reply. On par with "well, if we did not wear masks, we would have even more cases, hospitalizations, deaths" that is rolled out continuously, despite the fact that MOST politicians a few months ago rejected masks as a means of protection (Merkel said they are virus-spreaders and should not be worn, for example), and the fact that packaging says they do not protect against bacteria/virus, certainly not in an environment as full of bacteria/virus/dirt as everything outside of ventilated/disinfected surgery rooms. Are you prepared to change masks every 1-2 hours and every time you touch one with your hands, or sneeze or sniffle in one? I bet you do not do that. Have you ever heard of country-wide, almost global-wide lockdowns, closing of everything and anything, fines for non-compliance, prohibitions of even the most basic things, idiocy like forbidden one-night stands in London, wearing masks in a car as soon as you are more than one person (family or not) like in Luzern, Switzerland, half of a shop's floor, the part that sells household stuff like cleaning products, off-limits like in Wales or before in Switzerland? Mask requirement on the streets? Police checking houses for mask wearing? Martial law during night hours? No pizza after 18 like in Italy? I was in Venice in summer, everyone was wearing a mask in shops, in restaurants, outside as well. How much did it help? Who knows. There are these "cases" we hear about, but what that really means we do not know. More testing? High false positive rate? Higher and higher degree of amplification (PCR test) to get the wanted result? Hey, I am not in risk group and I do not have health problems (that I know of). I could die of corona, certainly. I could die of standard pneumonia (flu). I could drop dead from any number of pretty much harmless diseases, at any point. You as well. Do you know how many people die from/with flu every year? Tens of thousands, in each country that is, not globally. Did we ever had anything close to what we experience today in terms of destruction of everyday life for generations of people? Never. The last was 1918, in the days when medicine was not even close to the level of sophistication it is today, when most people were poor, undernourished, and when there was a global war involving millions in dirty infected trenches. Before that we had plague in 1300-1400 centuries. Then also plague in 1700s. All these masks, close-downs etc were tried then, to not much avail. What we experience now is not just "face saving and concealment", imho it is much more than that. Next step - forced vaccinations. Not vaccinated = ostracized, out of job. Collectivism is blooming again, now in the western world, it is scary. You will have to take that mRNA or whatever DOD-financed vaccine and hope for the best. But if you believe in truthful and benevolent government, having two global destructive world wars in the last 100 years, then I have all the bridges in the world to sell you.
I am minded to agree. There are some masters of the puniverse types who imagine a Great Reset. In their dreams......
The mask issue is in limbo because the most definitive study (in Denmark) remains unpublished because, it would appear, it came up with the wrong answer. We can presently only guess at the mix of motives in play but my working suspicion is that policy errors (on all sides in all Parliaments) have had catastrophic effects while other actors saw an opportunity to make a lot of money. Both are now interested in the cover up and evading public exposure and wrath.
Yes, like the World Economic Forum... https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/08/building-blocks-of-the-great-reset/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/archive/the-great-reset
Here's my 2 cents to the facemask subject. I get the feeling that many times we are looking for panacea while there is many small things that can improve situations where social distancing isn't an option. What I mean is that if you find yourself in a crowded place having a facemask and using it for a while might be beneficial both if you're ill (and might not know it) or if you don't have antibodies. So, do I wear a mask...no, but I don't have a problem with people that do. In fact, they might even do me a favour. We are finding out more and more about the virus and how it affect us, the last thing I heard the other day is that now it seems like almost everyone that has had covid develop antibodies. But the tests we are using aren't really that reliable and don't show small amounts of antibodies. Hopefully this means that the rare few cases that has had the infection twice is something fairly unique. When it comes to lockdown I can't imagine what its like as I haven't experienced it (yet). But I struggle working from home 4 days out of 5 not meeting people the same way as I did before. Hopefully they will take into the account how a lockdown affect peoples mental and physical health, who knows, maybe that's an even bigger problem than Covid.
I'm so glad the internet has so many experts. Otherwise we'd be forced to take the advice of every doctor, nurse, virologist and immunologist on the planet.
I do think that most do follow the advice that the expertise give. But I guess its always easy to point out mistakes or look back and say "they've should have done this or that". But its sad to see when it sometimes turning into one big pissing contest like what's been going on between the Nordic countries.
SuperHans said, "So, do I wear a mask...no, but I don't have a problem with people that do." Too bad the people that wear masks do not return the same respect to those who choose not to wear a mask. They always seem to make it their business that I'm not wearing one.
The problem with that is, "every doctor, nurse, virologist and immunologist on the planet" are NOT giving the same advice. Edit: Sorry, Privateer, I wrote my post before seeing yours. Great minds and all that, eh?
1. They're pretty close. 2. That's how science works. They start with some different ideas and respond to new info. It's the politicians and internet experts who dig in based on what they wish was true and refuse to alter their position based on new info. 3. I'm now extricating myself from this nonsensical debate. It must be exhausting thinking that everyone who says something you don't like is sinister or stupid.
j Therein lies the problem. Most of the people advising Governments as policy wonks are mathematicians, social ‘scientists’ and people closely tied to the pharmaceutical industry. The clinicians like https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/summit2/ are being shut out of the conversation. The truth will out.
I'm guessing it depends where you are in the world, but in Sweden its not mandatory to wear a mask so maybe that affects how people behave. Not sure how true it is but it seems like in some places its also very much a statement to wear a mask, where you stand politically and so on.
Yep. I can spot a democrat because he/she is driving in their car alone . . . wearing a mask. Seriously, though, where masks are mandatory here (and not necessarily enforced), there are still people who make themselves mask Nazis and try to tell others to put a mask on. They usually end up getting told to mind their own business. Sometimes it leads to fisticuffs, which in my mind, is where the left has succeeded with the mask requirements -to cause division and hate.
Its a shame that it has turned into that type of way of looking at eachother. Imagine if you are a raving right wing and one of those who really need to protect yourself from the virus, but choose not to wear a mask so that you won't be taken for being a leftie....