I have had my T100 2015 year, for a month now. Couple of weeks ago I did the SIA removal. That is the only mod to the bike. I am now aware of a bit on off throttle sensation at low speeds. It may well have been there before but not sure. I have searched the forum for some info on the subject. I came across a post that threw some light on the subject. It is on page 38 bonneville title "Accelerator effect on/off" (its the 4th post from the bottom) "Biglad" mentions something I was not aware off. In removing the SIA the O2 sensor may see the gas as too rich and attempt to adjust the mixture and make it leaner. He goes on to further say that removing the O2 sensors may put the ecu into a default setting. These comments made by "Biglad" apply to >2014 models but he is not 100% sure on that. If the ecu doesn't sense the missing O2 input it would seem that you can do the SIA and O2 mod with no ill effect. So anybody done the SIA mod on a >2014 model or SIA + O2 removal mod without a new ecu map ? I did this years ago on a T100 carb model. But I don't know how a 2015 T100 reacts to the SIA removal. Bring on the comments please
The trouble with starting is the urge to finish! SAI elimination just cools the exhaust and stops exhaust fuel burn off for emissions compliance. The snatchiness is lean fuelling - again emissions driven but not MoT tested. Conventional wisdom is to remove the O2 sensor that trips at 1500 rpm, fit a resistor and use Tune ECU to kill the error light. A richer re-map cures the entire problem. So how much does it bother you and what is your budget? Read on..... https://www.triumphtwinpower.com/bo...aster-efi-airbox-modification-removal-kit.php
Nope don't want to do that TTP stuff. No intention of fitting different pipes, air filters etc. I sold a BMW R1200rt LC and bought this T100. I just want a bike to finish of my riding career. (69 years). So will my SIA removal cause my 2015 ecu to weaken off the mixture even more? If its a definite yes, back goes my SIA system. If its OK as it is I will just leave it and ride around the issue. Callumity, thanks for the advice.
Thats the one I refer to in my post. Copied and pasted f I have searched the forum for some info on the subject. I came across a post that threw some light on the subject. It is on page 38 bonneville title "Accelerator effect on/off" (its the 4th post from the bottom)
"The secondary air injection system reduces the level of pollutants emitted in the exhaust gases. The system is operated by the control valve assembly located under the fuel tank and functions as follows. When the engine is running, the vacuum present in the intake port opens up the control valve diaphragm. Every time there is a negative pulse in the exhaust port, the control valve then allows clean air to be drawn from the airbox into the port. This air causes secondary combustion of the exhaust gases in the exhaust ports, reducing the amount of unburnt hydrocarbons released into the atmosphere in the exhaust gases. The control valve assembly contains two reed valve assemblies (one for each cylinder) to prevent the exhaust gases travelling from the exhaust port back to the airbox." It has no effect on off idle snatchiness.
Thanks Callumity, that clears up one thing. If anybody knows wether the O2 sensor will weaken the mixture off even more in the absence of the SIA system. I am referring to a 2015 T100 in case that makes a difference.
Hi again Callumity, I have taken lesson 2 and look forward to the written test paper. I am a retired electronics engineer and know a little about loop systems. What I really would like to know is about the exhaust gases. (Please bear with me) The SIA burns off extra hydro carbons to reduce the emissions . I wonder if the O2 sensor will detect the change in the exhaust gas composition. For example if there are more hydrocarbons detected will it think the mixture is to rich and weaken it. (Not a good thing) I don't know the parameters of the O2 sensor and I'm no emissions specialist. Unless the SIA runs continuously in closed loop mode it must get its signal from the ecu which in turn must receive info from the O2 sensor. So does the removal of the SIA cause the O2 sensor to signal the ecu to weaken the mixture. Thats assuming there are high hydrocarbons in the exhaust. Beginning to wish I hadn't posted this. ECU questions always cause problems. Saw it loads on the GS users forum.
Start from the premise that the bike is tuned as lean as it will go at closed and stable throttle openings. Then remember it uses a very narrow band sensor. Bang open the throttle and it gets overridden. My understanding of electronics is minimal but, from what I do understand, the switch from closed to open loop occurs at about 1500 rpm when a pretty lean idle flicks instantly to a richer fuelling - much richer if you whack open the throttle. The system is quite crude. The rough transition is the result. Off idle I doubt the unburnt hydrocarbons exist in any great quantity because you are already in a highly lean condition. Re-mapping provides the opportunity for bottom end enrichment as well as addressing any inlet and exhaust derestrictions. So.......I doubt SAI removal is a significant factor in throttle response and when the SAI is at its most effective - in rich WOT conditions - the ECU will be ignoring the O2 sensor anyway.
Good reply, got the info I need . I will leave my SIA removed. A spark plug check will happen on a decent run. Thanks Callumity for the time taken to answer my post.
Good reply, got the info I need . I will leave my SIA removed. A spark plug check will happen on a decent run. Thanks Callumity for the time taken to answer my post.
Unless the Triumph ECU is radically different closed loop, O2 feedback will respond to a missing or failed sensor by running slightly richer fueling, this is a safety measure...however due to the closed loop only being used until 1500rpm is reached, i have no idea if there is a load cut off criteria as well? Under normal circumstances i wouldn't ever expect a weakened mixture as a result. SIA removal shouldn't have and effect on the o2 sensor if the air enters downstream of the sensor and in any case depending on the type of sensor used and the fact that the air is timed should stop the sensor reporting weak mixture and ECU adjusting it other than the fact that if its a narrow band sensor the mixture will fluctuate as the ECU adjusts to compensate.
Hi Jarra, here's a bit more for you to consider: 1. The SAI is only in operation from 0 to 6% of throttle opening; 2. The ECU switches between two tables of values, dependant upon throttle position, engine temp, MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor info, air temp and yes you guessed O² sensor info. So as you can see, there are a significant number of parameters and variables used/analysed and applied in the second by second fuel calculations. Re the relationship between the SAI and O² - at small throttle openings the sai is letting in fresh air after the exhaust vale and before the O² sensor. So if less oxygen is detected that will change the value reported by the O² sensor to the ECU and will impact on fuelling in the 0-6% throttle position. So all of this is going on at small throttle openings when filtering/creeping through traffic for example. The ECU is swapping between tables and continually re-calculating. However, if when the SAI is removed and there were to be some way to gttee that the O² sensor would still deliver the expected data, then that would be good wouldn't it? Use dummy plugs on the O² cables. Or alternatively, if the bikes' O² sensors were removed and the bikes' ECU was remapped with the new map that DIDN'T need to use O² data, then that would work even better, because there would be less data being "chunked". This is what I did to my bike and it ran smoother, freer, with better mpg.
Hi Biglad, today I removed my O2 sensors and put dummy plugs (eliminators) in the empty sockets. The weather was pretty crap so haven't been out on it. Thanks for the info on the ecu. I think of the ecu as female it does so many jobs at the same time. Unlike me Steve
Remap it with the TTP stage one map only way and this sorts it all out as there is no provision within that map for AIS or 02 sensors no more jerky throttle
That would be fine if I did all the mods but I haven't. The air filter and exhaust will remain standard. At least for now. So the TTP stage 1 would I imagine over compensate. I had a ride out today with a pillion and thought there was an improvement. But caution is the word when the wife is on the back. One thing she did comment on was the ride. Its not as smooth as your last bike. That was a BMW r1200rt with electronic suspension. Not a surprise really. The bikes are totally different.
It will work with standard air box and restricted pipes as i mapped it and ran it like this but worked better with the TORS pipes that i had fitted after it unleashes its hidden power and makes it smoother very noticeble difference as I really hated the snatchy feeling
