Engine Management Light

Discussion in 'Triumph General Discussion' started by Simon Owen, Jan 11, 2019.

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  1. Simon Owen

    Simon Owen New Member

    Jan 10, 2019
    24
    3
    Staffordshire
    Hi everyone,

    Would the engine management come on for a low battery voltage on a 2015 Street Triple R ABS?
     
  2. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    5,929
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    Grampian.
    Many reasons for management lights ( it would be great if they published a list)
    If the problem is not on going, then after 3 cold hot cold engine cycles the light will go out.
    If the battery is low enough then the bike wont engage the starter so as not to damage the sprag clutch
     
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  3. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    Possibly Simon?

    Charge the battery & go for a ride. Normally 3 fully hot to stone cold engine cycles will put the light out.
    You can do the same in the garage but the engine must get fully hot to stone cold. Do it over a couple of days. Or at least 5-6hrs apart mate.

    Edit... Sprinter beat me to it! :)
     
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  4. Simon Owen

    Simon Owen New Member

    Jan 10, 2019
    24
    3
    Staffordshire
    Thanks guys, I left the parking light on overnight by accident and ran the battery down.

    I trickle charged it today but noticed when I went out for a ride that the engine management light had come on. It went off after I’d been for a good ride and so I suspected that it was due to low battery voltage and disappeared once it had charged up a bit after riding.
     
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  5. DanielB

    DanielB Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2019
    301
    63
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire
    I had this similar issue, had to trickle charge the battery on my 2002 955i.

    When I started up afterwards - literally 2mins after disconnecting the charger, the bike started really sluggishly.... Then rode off with the engine Mgmt light on.

    Three hot-cold cycles and the light is now off.

    I assume is all ok. Bike starts fine.

    I'm just curious, as I continue my knowledge journey, what's going on here... Why does the light come on, and what's so special about 3 engine cycles that makes it go off?
     
  6. capt

    capt Noble Member

    May 8, 2016
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    western Australia
    It's all programming , if it didn't reset imagine all the customers/owners of cats and bike's that would winge and whine at their dealer's . It would drive everyone Nuts. The light comes on to tell you a fault has occurred ! If the Fault is temporary or one of , why stay lit ??? Modern ECU picks up many faults , they store a complete list in their memories , you should see the logs in heavy trucks and buses ! I worked on Daewoo buses for a short time , they must have had 200 odd sensors , in just about every part of the bus ! The driver gets one light for engine and transmission ! The codes were in a 40 page book !
     
  7. Rocker

    Rocker First Class Member
    Subscriber

    May 1, 2016
    823
    500
    Suffolk
    #7 Rocker, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    It's so you take it in to the dealer Ford want £95 to plug my Transit in!
     
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  8. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
    1,254
    643
    Norfolk UK
    Mind you you can buy a cheap code reader that will plug into the OBD port of most cars...not heard of one for a bike?
     
  9. dilligaf

    dilligaf GrrrR3Rrrr
    Subscriber

    Mar 30, 2017
    10,906
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    Borrowed one from my mate and use it to clear faults when I had been messing with my BPOS (09 Speedmaster) put the engine management light out :)
    That was a car one
     
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  10. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    Ahh so bikes are using the standard OBD plug...that's a surprise, i was expecting them to be something obscure just to be bloody awkward.
     
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  11. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    5,929
    800
    Grampian.

    Our mechs ( Bus Garage) spend the first part of everyday, checking and resetting sensors. Check out Tune ECU . com

    http://www.tuneecu.com/
     
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  12. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    #12 Tricky-Dicky, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    Thanks! had a look and downloaded the Windows software, managed to find some maps to play with, not sure whats being used in the main fuel tables IE its not injector duty cycle so i am assuming it injector pulse width in milliseconds...anyone know for sure?
     
  13. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    Humm there also seems to be a injector DC map as well not quite sure why there are three ignition maps and two fuel?
     
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  14. capt

    capt Noble Member

    May 8, 2016
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    Most fuel injection systems (single injector) use a table , where the flow rate is a standard setting , ie- a known amount of liquid will flow through an injector in a set time period ( this is how most are tested , in a flow rate test bed) so yes , you are right the fuel tables are set/adjusted in TIME of opening/flow ! The actual time the injectors begins to open is set/locked and varies according to the ignition timing, this is why there are three ignition timing tables, the third is injector related , injection timing is controlled/responding to this table , if fuel went in after the Spark there would be no Engine/Power to use ! So fuel flow starts at a time ??? Before ignition fire's , this pretty much doesn't vary too much from engine to engine ! A set standard table of injection start times would be employed by most engineers.
     
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  15. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    Sorry but i think you misunderstand i know how it all works used to remap my own and others cars, not having used that particular software and was curious to know if anyone was familiar with it and could confirm if the fueling tables where in milliseconds of injector pulse...which on further study they are, i tend to use injector duty cycle, and there appears to be three timing maps but these seem to be calibrated the same, i was just asking if anyone has used this software...otherwise its quite straight forward.
     
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  16. capt

    capt Noble Member

    May 8, 2016
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    I don't think the software can get deep enough in to the ECU to change injection starting time ! The fueling can only be adjusted by the pulse/length of time opened ! With this software ! I think I answered your question perfectly as best as I can , not being an engineer who specialized in ignition/ fuel timing ! I have adjusted my fueling before one three triumphs now, first a 1994 Trident (carbureted) second 2000 sprint and lately a 2008/9 Bonneville America. tunnecu is a pretty good tool for this but it's restricted and limited to fuel pulse length/timing ! The starting time is stuck/fixed by a table inaccessible to tunnecu, possibly you might get something happening if the third timing table is adjusted ?? I think this table is the one that the "injection" tables read's to get timing pulse timing start point !?!?
    Adjusting just the fuel tables I have managed to get around 70/75 rear wheel HP out of my 904cc big bored Bonneville America, to get more I'd need to adjust Ignition timing and change Cam timing , not going there as I like the torque the STD cam gives me (I tow 200kg camper) a non std cam would in all likely hood give me too much top end power !
     
  17. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    Also having reread your explanation i would disagree fuel and ignition maps although complimentary are not directly related in the manor your describing, most maps are scaled by engine load and the x and y are the rpm and throttle or intake pressure/depression, most fuel injector systems are either mass or single, so mass is wasted fuel that like ignition timing is wasted on a non firing stroke, or timed to inject only on the firing stroke by the crankshaft (and sometimes also the camshaft) sensors just like the ignition the system knows just where in the firing cycle each cylinder is at any given crankshaft rotation.

    Depending on the sophistication and age of the system if the system is map based the fueling is fixed, (even if using a narrow-band lambda for closed loop fueling) of if wide-band lambda based is capable of learning fueling adjustments on the fly via a ROM based lookup table.

    Your partially right regarding the extra timing maps ( i was confused as they all contained the same values which is incorrect if they are the knock maps) as the extra map/s are usually knock based and contain retarded settings if knock is detected via a knock sensor if load or fueling either too high or not enough/or low grade fuel (do the new Triumph engines use one need to find a workshop manual to discover just what the system uses)

    Ignition timing is fixed in each map its just knock that will trigger the use of the retard maps.
     
  18. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    I think what your trying to describe is whats know as injector lag time IE the lag between the signal to open is received and the actual opening point...
    this it fixed by the type of injector fitted and not changeable anyway.

    The fueling tables in that software are an easy adjustment...same with timing, the one i looked at was still quite rich at most load points the secret of getting more power is mapping by AFR this providing you dont go too far on ignition timing will yeald the best results, unfortunately you need a wide-band lambda logging system to do this, ignition timing is more intuitive as you need to give enough advance to achieve full combustion and MBT at the given load site without causing knock.
     
  19. capt

    capt Noble Member

    May 8, 2016
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    I believe Triumph are using very basic fueling injection system ! If you want a more advanced system go buy a BMW or a DUCATI they are using multiple injector's and multiple injections per firing stroke ! Many modern car's use multiple injections ! Diesel engines now inject 4 time's per cycle !! This is how they still make the power outputs they Do and Meet Euro 4 and 5 emissions !

    The fueling in a simple injection (early) system , uses the ignition timing tables, it has a table which it adjusts the pulse a pre set time before ignition. To allow fuel and air into the cylinder in good time for power, the lambda system on these motor's isn't anti knock sensitive ! The factory has presets it has locked !
     
  20. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky First Class Member

    Dec 12, 2016
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    From the map i have looked at lambda feedback is only at the very low end of the fuel table so is there simply for emissions,

    Fuel injectors only inject fuel via whats called the duty cycle and the pulse width both of these affect the amount of fuel that goes into the cylinder on the firing stroke, Both RPM and load (measured via the RPM and throttle position/intake vacuum) as i said the injector lag is fixed.

    Are you saying that the Triumph ECU based engines dont use knock sensor feedback? in which case having more than one timing map is redundant.... i would find that very strange as ECU controlled motors have been using knock sensors since the 80s .
     
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