Drive Sprocket & Tsa

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by JD_Lincs, Sep 4, 2022.

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  1. JD_Lincs

    JD_Lincs Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2020
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    I have the Triumph TSA (quickshifter) fitted to my Tiger 660. I want to do a popular mod and increase my drive sprocket size by 1 tooth, but the local mechanic tells me it will bugger the TSA completely.

    I'm a member of a Tiger 660 owner's group and several members have told me they have done this mod without any issues.

    The reason the mechanic said it would mess the TSA up is because he said they'd had someone with a Speed or Street Triple do this and it had ruined the drive. Apparently, they'd not been able to fix the issue, sent it to Triumph and been told that the larger sprocket was the cause. Of course, this may not be the truth - they might have just come across the aftermarket sprocket and decided to blame it, regardless. Easy way out of taking the blame for a fault.

    Anyone done this or know for sure?
     
  2. Adie P

    Adie P Crème de la Crème

    Jul 7, 2018
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    As mentioned in your other thread - which I have sllightly and inadvertantly misunderstood - I think that what you've been told by the mechanic is somewhat illogical.

    AFAIK the QS is just a momentary, electronic kill switch and shouldn't be in any way influenced by the gearing. The only constraint MIGHT be that the QS is designed/intended to work and be used at a certain minimum revs and that may feel different with a different front sprocket size. Shouldn't stop it working, though.
     
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  3. JD_Lincs

    JD_Lincs Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2020
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    AFAIK the revs don't really matter. Someone mentioned 3,500rpm but I can't see this as being correct. I certainly don't use the quickshifter at any particular rpm reading. edit - in fact I've gone straight up from 2 to 5 through each gear, clicking the shifter when I've overdone the revs in 2nd. It's very easy to do on this bike as the first 4 gears are so close together - hence the mod to an extra tooth.

    The instructions are to hold revs to change up and zero throttle to change down.
     
  4. Adie P

    Adie P Crème de la Crème

    Jul 7, 2018
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    I think we might have to agree to disagree on minimum revs for use of the QS! I can't remember where I might have got the idea but I'm fairly sure that I was strongly advised by the person that fitted mine (a well known ex-racer and Triumph expert) not to use the the QS at low revs. Nothing specific (that I can recall) but,when you think about the fundamental purpose of the thing (the clue's in the name) it's about making fast gear changes to maintain and improve acceleration so I wouldn't, personally, naysay the 3,500 rpm minimum suggestion. Below that minimum it's use is of no practical benefit as far as I can see.

    "...... hold revs to change up" I can fully understand and agree with but I'm a bit mystified by the 'zero throttle to change down' if you're linking this to a QS? Normal practice is, of course, to blip the throttle to change down and a QS won't do that unless it's a fully integrated, electronic QS/B. Zero throttle on downshifts will, of course, give you maximum engine decceleration by adding engine braking but will give you no benefit whatsoever in smooth gearbox use and progressive braking.

    In the final analysis, it's your bike so you can do as you wish but I think you might want to investigate the issue a little bit further to clarify what your full requirements are.
     
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  5. JD_Lincs

    JD_Lincs Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2020
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    The TSA instructions I got were from the dealer when he gave me the bike (though I did have to ask him) but it says exactly the same in the owner's handbook.

    I really like the shifter on the way up, but I've stopped using it for dowshifts because firstly because of the sudden jump in rev's you'd expect, which I can't believe is doing any good - and secondly because I much prefer the engine braking I get by using the clutch for downshifts - it's just a more safe and controllable way of doing it imho.
     
  6. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
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    Yep fully agree, my 765 has a Triumph quickshifter and I read the instructions somewhere that stated 4k minimum revs which makes sense.
    Mines faultless in normal use and the only time I've unsettled it is when in traffic, preoccupied and changed at low revs.
     
  7. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
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    JD, Adie is spot on with his summary, quickshifters are designed (on the upshift) to function at their best at higher revs, using a quickshifter at low speed can cause several issues, these vary from sticking in gear or unable to go from second to third, or fourth to fifth etc to false neutrals, a lot of people forget that motorcycle gearboxes do not have synchro meshes like cars do, so it is easy to get gearbox issues if not using a quickshifter (or the clutch ) correctly. I am always puzzled when people use a quickshifter at low speeds or whilst riding in towns, they are not designed for that, the quickshifter doesn't work well below 2500rpm minimum, so best not to use it for slow or as said in towns or cities. As many of us are aware it is a millisecond reduction in ignition that allows the gears to slot into position smoothly and, because the throttle is not "closed" the drivetrain can give you the next level of acceleration without any energy loss. The quickshifter cuts the ignition timing when it is under pressure from the gear lever, so effectively keep your foot away from the gearchange lever until you want to upshift. The auto-blipper improves the efficiency of your downshifting technique and increase the life expectancy of your drivetrain, like quickshifting, auto-blip lets you downshift without using the clutch, with a ride-by-wire throttle the system can electronically auto-blip the throttle plates, also your machine has "a slip assist clutch" so limits the possibility of rear wheel lock up. Your machine also has a "rev limiter" and I am puzzled why you think you have over revved the bike given the limiter would have kicked in. Swapping the sprocket will not make any difference whatsoever on the quickshifter/blipper, although it will affect the speedo readings. The up-and-down quickshifter is an accessory and not everyone likes them but used correctly they are great fun. I get the Tiger 660 is a touring machine rather than street sport, that said they can still be ridden spirited.
     
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  8. JD_Lincs

    JD_Lincs Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2020
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    Well thank you for your extended comment, however I never use it at low revs and don't remember ever saying I did, either, tbh. I don't know why that is being assumed. I did say that someone else claimed 3500rpm was where gears should be shifted - but I wouldn't be that dumb, myself ;) When I said "the revs don't really matter" I meant they are not relevant to the question.

    Never mind - was obviously not a good idea asking here, I do have a well qualified friend in the business, so I'll see what he says. I didn't want to bother him with it as he's a very busy man, but needs obviously must.

    Cheerio.
     
  9. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
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    #9 Baza, Sep 13, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
    If this is the same shift assist that I have on my Street Triple as standard I don’t see how engine revs are relevant. Most of the above has been about going up the box.

    Coming down the box the system will auto blip to sync gears before meshing.on a closed throttle. In fact it can baulk if you are demanding increased power and try to knock it down a gear.

    I find that changing to higher gears on maximum throttle is no quicker than when I do it on my Ducati which has none of this electrickery but you have to master the technique of clutchless up changes.

    Just an added afterthought. When moving away from or coming to a standstill I invariably use the clutch on up and down changes between 1st and 2nd because the difference in ratios is so great it can be a tad clunky. Also having ridden bikes without any of these frills my whole life until buying my new machine a year ago I fear that these accessories can encourage laziness in your riding techniques with new riders not bothering to master the art of rapidly changing down the box whilst breaking heavily, using all four limbs for five different functions. Great satisfaction to be had when done well.
     
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  10. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
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    Have a read from this link, I don't profess to be an expert on quickshifter's but do have a working knowledge, however Gareth Hopkins at HM is, he designed cutting edge technical advanced systems for government (including sophisticated military systems), before designing and producing his world class motorcycle quickshifters/blippers and much more. You can actually pick up the phone and contact HM for technical assistance (they are very helpful).
    Motorcycle quickshifters: Are they safe, how do they work? (bennetts.co.uk)
     
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