Designed By Committee, Why So Many Different Fixing Types?

Discussion in 'Bonneville' started by JerryBB, Nov 6, 2019.

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  1. JerryBB

    JerryBB Active Member

    Oct 6, 2019
    246
    43
    Wales
    Whilst doing some more work on the bonnie, one thing I noticed was the myriad of fixing types and sizes used on the bike, for instance the chainguard has one allen head bolt and one torque head of two different sizes. The exhaust uses three different size nut heads, 12mm for the footpeg, 13mm and 14mm for the clamp bolt, though I suppose it means you don't need two of any size spanner or socket! Also the front and rear brake calipers have different size bolt heads which strikes me as illogical and lets not forget the speedo drive is a philips screw!

    Not a complaint, just an observation and maybe it is just me who finds the use of so many different fixings and sizes odd.

    I'll get my coat
     
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  2. feckless

    feckless Senior Member

    Apr 16, 2019
    323
    113
    Cumbria
    well the bolt diameter is generally determined by the forces that will be exerted upon it, these could be shear, tension or bending moments for example.
    but as for the bolt head sizes I agree with you as I have used many M8 fasteners that have 12mm or 13mm head sizes, but I have no idea why

    afraid I am not much help really so will watch this one myself :D:D
     
  3. Rocker

    Rocker Noble Member
    Subscriber

    May 1, 2016
    707
    300
    Suffolk
    Built by accountants
     
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  4. Jet City

    Jet City Member

    Sep 24, 2018
    58
    18
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Jerry, I’m so glad it’s not just me.

    They aren’t exotic sizes, but why do I need 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm wrenches, a 6mm hex wrench and a T50 Torx bit to swap out my catalytic converter for a Meerkat crossover?

    If the Bonneville was Japanese I’d need maybe two different sizes. Fascinating.
     
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  5. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Senior Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    491
    113
    Southern California
    This has been an issue that has frustrated mechanics for years. I worked as an auto mechanic at one time. Why do I need 3 roll around boxes full to be well equipped ? I used to hate to work on anything made by GM. They were great for coming up with fasteners that were just plain WIERD. I won't own any of thier products to this day ! ...J.D.
     
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  6. JerryBB

    JerryBB Active Member

    Oct 6, 2019
    246
    43
    Wales
    just to drop the back wheel, I need six different spanner/socket sizes plus one allen key and one torx driver....
     
  7. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Senior Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    491
    113
    Southern California
    Oh, no suprize. I have been collecting tools for over 50 years. Even to this day sometimes I have a project held up because I have to order the tooling before I can start the job. Just comes with the territory friend :) ...J.D.
     
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  8. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    On your bike, what size socket fits best on the bolt that holds the back of the tank on Jerry?
    The bolt on mine was untouched when I needed to remove it to fit heated grips. No rounding, chewing or any other signs of previous bodgery.
    Yet an AF socket was a better fit than a metric one???
     
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  9. JerryBB

    JerryBB Active Member

    Oct 6, 2019
    246
    43
    Wales

    Thats unusual even by what I have seen so far. Not actually tried to remove the tank yet....will look tomorrow
     
  10. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    I can't recall the size mate.
    6mm or 8mm rings a bell but try the nearest metric & see if it feels ever so slightly loose? Then try the nearest equivalent AF.
    If it's like mine, there'll be less movement/slack with the AF.

    It's neither here nor there with a tank bolt. As there's no need to lean on it when doing it up. It just struck me as odd.

    An educated guess would suggest it's supposed to me metric. But was manufactured incorrectly.
     
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  11. JerryBB

    JerryBB Active Member

    Oct 6, 2019
    246
    43
    Wales

    I found one side of the exhaust silencer clamp, 13mm does not fit tight in a socket, though a bit better with a ring spanner.
     
  12. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    That could be down to the socket not being 6 sided. Where as the ring spanner probably was?
     
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  13. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Senior Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    491
    113
    Southern California
    I find that Triumph has a nasty habit of using M-6 bolts where they should have been a bit bigger. On my Legend I drilled them out [both tank & seat mounting bolts] and tapped them to M-8 because some previous person had stripped the threads. With the larger size, I have had no further problems. I found this on 2 of my old Hinckleys bikes. ...J.D.
     
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  14. Sir Trev

    Sir Trev Senior Member

    May 27, 2017
    480
    163
    Buckinghamshire
    You really don't want a bike built by people like me... I'd get bored half way through and end up making a spreadsheet cost model to prove it would be more cost-effective to hire someone with actual practical qualifications instead of finishing it. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    You have no shame do you Trev.
    Who admits to being an accountant? :rolleyes:

    BTW...
    I've met Sir Trev in person. He was perfectly normal (for a biker) & I'd never have guessed that he's an accountant? :cool: :p
     
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  16. Sir Trev

    Sir Trev Senior Member

    May 27, 2017
    480
    163
    Buckinghamshire
    Ah, there is the traditional image of the accountant, shoe box full of receipts that get turned into boring, backwards-looking statutory documents, and then there are those of us in management accounting. I work with people to plan and execute projects, helping them build a business case, getting vendors set up in advance to avoid bottlenecks and delays, getting things ordered on time, keeping track of spend so the project team can use the back of their fag packets for useful things instead, make sure suppliers get paid so they'll happily work with you again and then, cough, hide the overspend so it looks like it all worked seamlessly and the project team get praise from on high. It is however still fecking boring and not a career I'd ever recommend!!!!

    And iI's true, I have indeed met DD, but I cannot reciprocate and say he too is "perfectly normal" cos, well..... :kissing:o_O.
     
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  17. Dozers Dad

    Dozers Dad Bushmills Chief Quality Controller
    Subscriber

    You nearly made that sound glamorous & interesting? :)

    Then you ruined it at the end! :confused:
     
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  18. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Senior Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    491
    113
    Southern California
    "Perfectly normal"? …We are all perfectly normal except in the areas of our life where we are not. That is where it gets interesting. That is usually where we make money too. ...J.D.

    Three Stooges.jpg
     
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  19. JerryBB

    JerryBB Active Member

    Oct 6, 2019
    246
    43
    Wales
    watch out for the normal people...
     
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  20. RokitJon

    RokitJon Active Member

    Nov 11, 2018
    89
    28
    North Florida
    You should work on some of the stuff that ends up in America! A confusing mess of American Standard and Metric. I go to work on something like this and spend more time putting the tools away than the damn job took!
     
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