Yes, this gives me confidence I’m not in trouble, I can clearly see this would work...it’s only my last option because I’ll have to get someone to come out to do the job, which is fine of course. Do you think it could affect any of the electrics, ECU, etc. Running an arc welder current through the bike? Just out of interest, I’m not missing anything with Torx sizes am I? They do go up in increments of five don’t they? Also, what do you think of the idea that these head bolts could be Torx Plus, the chunkier version of Torx? Thanks for all your comments, Yorkshireman
In most kits yes, but you do have other sizes, some of mine on my Buell where size 27, Undo the Battery and some do the alternator plug before welding
Just reiterating what Don the Don says, make sure you disconnect the battery before attempting to weld the bolt. Might also be safer to disconnect the alternator and maybe the ECU, better be safe than sorry. This electrickery can be funny stuff!
If you go on the bikerstoolbox website you will find the bit that may well get the head bolt out, I've used some of their tools in the past, the site is also very informative. If you were nearer I could MIG an old torx socket on for you, but please try the site. There is a stud/nut extraction set you can buy, the same idea that is used for removing stripped car wheel locking nuts, there should be enough room to place the extractor over the torx head looking at your photos. I think a Mortorq socket may well extract the head bolt, if you get the same size that is the Torx bit, gently tap it in and it should grip allowing you to gently apply pressure until the bolt crack off (slackens). Ride safe all.
Unless the bolt is almost loose these things are usually useless they either break leaving a very hard stump that won't drill out, or they expand the hole they are in and again don't do what is required. If the broken bolt can be drilled centrally a splined type extractor with its drive nut works as long as you use the biggest one that the bolt will accept. There is also a special left hand drill with its own extraction sleeve that I have used on occasion with some success. In this particular problem mig welding a nut on would be the way I would go. Good luck.
Thanks so much for that generous offer Iceman...definitely the thought that counts. I’ll take a look at the site...I’m on nightshift tonight with a little bit of time on my hands, so perfect timing.
Many thanks for posting...much appreciated. I think you’re right re the tool snapping off...it’s not the way to go, I agree.
Just a quick clarification regarding the tool, the one I am describing has a torque value exceeding 250 ft lbs before it will stress, the breaking point is much higher, these bits are made to military spec and well up to the job, these do come at a cost. I guess you have little to lose really, if heaven forbid it did chew the head of the bolt making it immovable, then you still have the option of welding a nut or old torx socket on, the lower you can weld the better, I know people who have welded a 3/8ths bar to similar stripped torx bolts, however the pressure increases significantly and usually results in the bar failing (snapping). There is also the sequence to follow when tightening up the head bolts, from the timing chain side front nearest is 7 Rear is 5 then 3 and 2 then 1 and 4 and then 8 and 6 the torque sequence is A 20 Nm B 27 Nm and C each bolt must be turned through 90 degrees, the technique is used widely in both Car and Motorcycles, never be tempted to re use head bolts (they do stretch). Hope this helps and good luck with the bolt removal, I'm sure you'll keep the forum posted on your progress. Ride safe all.
Many thanks again, and will definitely keep this thread posted, it’s the least I can do for all the help I’ve been getting. When I was talking about the extractor not being up to it I was referencing the sets I’d asked about earlier...ones a little like these screw fix extractors. I’ve been looking on bikerstoolbox (a great resource, thank-you) but can only find the two other images below...are these the mortorq tools you refer to? Thanks again for all your help to-date.
Hi StuarT595, the bolt extractor picture is the one, however as mentioned the tool I would use are the ones made to go over the stud, they look like a socket, however they have angular cutting edges that grip the bolt tightly allowing removal, I use an air impact wrench in tight spaces if the bolt is really tight, this tends to give it initial "shock" then remove with a ratchet or T Bar. If you look on on the 24mx website you will also see a set of high quality removal tools, you won't break these in a hurry, the company are based in Poland, don't let that put you off, I ordered some special tools for my sons Ducati Panigale 1299s 2 weeks ago for a job I was doing for him, they arrived free postage in 5 days. Blue Spot tools do a set of removal tools, I have bought similar items from Machine Mart, however I personally would never consider using budget tools, I find they are just not up to the job so to speak. I hope this helps
Just incase something easy has been missed in the good intentions; would there be any joy in simply trying to drill it out with a cobalt bit? Or any help or advice to be found in this:
You are absolutely right Daniel almost anything is worth trying, the head bolt in question is a torx, it has stripped so the head of the bolt would make the method you describe more difficult. Personally I would go for the easiest route first, using a plan A - B and C, what you don't want to risk is the potential to damage the head in any way. StuarT595 says he has no access to a welder, that would be the simplest and cost effective way to go, it may be worth talking to a local fabricator/welder he or she may be willing to weld a nut, socket etc etc at your home. Also if you are confident with a welder look at hiring one for 1 or 2 days, practice with it first you'll soon pick up the basics. I would advise caution against cutting the bolt head off with say a Dremell, you would not have room to lift the head off the stud with the engine in situ. Ride safe all.
Don’t know why I didn’t think of this earlier but if welding isn’t an option for you then there are those sockets that are designed for removing locking wheel nuts. They are a reverse screw and grip on the outside of the nut. I put it down to my age.
@DanielB @Iceman @Yorkshireman Thanks again for your input. I’m reluctant to spring the tension all in one go by cutting the head off the bolt...and, as was said, this would leave no room to remove the head over the remaining stud. With regards to a piece of kit that grabs the bolt head itself...they are unfortunately recessed and very tight to the raised metalwork of the head (not easy to see in the images) so no easy options there. I have sourced a local man than can come and weld a nut on for me, so this is likely where I’m headed with this...I’ll then be able to unbolt the head evenly and in the correct sequence. I am going to try and roughly shape the remaining Torx hole into something I can hammer a hex into...just to see if it will hold, but otherwise I’ll have the welder round this week. You’ve all been amazing I can’t wait to show you all a ‘boring’ picture of my liners!
Isn't this becoming over-complicated? Why would you need screw extractors when the head bolt hasn't snapped off below the mating surface? Torque down the other head bolts if any have been slackened off. You could first try hammering a larger (good quality) torx bit into the bolt head. If that doesn't work, just carefully drill the bolt head off with a nice new bit that is larger than the bolt size. The remainder should just screw out when the cylinder head is out of the way.
That sort of ‘disaster’ bolt would normally take me 15-20 minutes which is the time it takes some to just discuss the thing!! Like what @garethr said above, what I’d do is tighten all the other bolts up to the max which takes pressure off the bad one, weld the head of the bad one up then whilst it’s still orange with heat weld a small solid bar in line with the bolt thread then let it cool down, strike the bar end sending ‘shocks’ into the bolt thread, then weld a ‘T’ on top and simply unscrew! Ok I’ve more than one welder but that’s 15-20 mins work job done!
I don't think the head would clear the frame with the engine in The no brainer is weld the broken torx bit into the bolt
Spot on StuartT595 as I previously mentioned that's the way to go with the local guy to weld, it's straightforward when you have a well kitted out workshop and the quality tools, a lot of people don't have that luxury though and things can get a bit of a struggle. I'm so glad you have managed to arrange the local person to do the weld. Good luck and keep the forum posted on progress.
