95 Daytona 1200 No Spark...sort Of

Discussion in 'Daytona' started by Vecchio lupo, May 2, 2020.

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  1. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    Well my title is not entirely true to the story. So....a couple weeks ago I purchased a high mileage Daytona 1200 that had gone through a dubious second owner and a neglectful 3rd owner , who I purchased from. Bike was wrecked in the front and lost its fiberglass, owner #2 repaired and turned into a Speed four of sorts (see picture) it has 60k miles but the condition swayed me. Plus it was diiiirt cheap (now we know why maybe) . Owner #3 who I talked to quite a lot is a 20ish young man who purchased this as his first bike ever (insert joke here) and he rode it just enough to terrify himself. The bike sat in his Grandmothers Garage (I can confirm this because when I picked it up, the Granny was so happy to get her Garage back) while he started it once in a while and never really warmed it up as he is just a Kid and doesn't really know about heat cycles.

    Yes Caveat Emptor, I got the old girl home and fresh fuel. fresh battery.......no start. It did however cough a couple times and give the impression of about to start. I figured ethanol and over a year of sitting meant carbs. Took them off (OMG what a terrible job...never to be repeated if possible) and cleaned them, they were actually quite clean and gum / Crud free. I reattached said carb bank and attempted start...nothing...not a sputter. I pulled a plug, it was nasty, pulled another,,identical. Checked for spark and no little blue lighting strikes at all.

    Then for some reason I touched a plug while cranking.....ok there is spark that I could feel if not see. I tried the ground and crank again only to see arc from the plug to the frame but no electrode spark at all. I have included a couple pics of the plugs for your viewing pleasure. Can the plugs be so bad that they are out of action or is this a weak spark coil situation? The plugs in it are NGK R DPR8EA 9. With the exception of the electrode they look new, not several years old, but in truth the young man had only put on a documented 230 kilometers in 2 years.

    all theories are welcome, of course new plugs are step one but perhaps there is knowledge I am unaware of out there in the collective.

    Thanks

    IMG_1428.jpeg

    IMG_1449.jpeg

    daytona 1.jpg
     
  2. stevethegoolie

    stevethegoolie Elite Member

    Oct 16, 2014
    2,452
    800
    East Riding of Yorkshire
    Other than being a bit sooty the plugs look fine to me.
    If it has been running previously, then you may have disturbed an electrical connection or two somewhere under the tank. I guess it will just be a case of checking all connectors are clean and in place. At around 25 years old they may have become dirty/corroded/or just plain old and inefficient - a bit like me really. Careful!!!!
    Also, before you tried to start it, did you 'prime' the carbs? If not, turn the pointy end of the fuel tap to vertical and push the whole tap in for about 20 seconds to get fuel into the carbs. It won't start if the carbs are empty - no shit, Sherlock! Fuel system cleaner in the petrol will help to clean the carbs and keep them that way, even though they look clean there could be some muck in there somewhere
    Nice looking bike though!.
     
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  3. TEZ 217

    TEZ 217 Crème de la Crème

    Mar 6, 2016
    3,148
    1,000
    south shields
    As said check connections first aswell as the plug leads themselves
     
  4. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    thanks, Im using an aux fuel source, gravity fed into the carbs, so I know there is fuel. the only thing I unplugged was somthing that attached to the fuel tank. I dont know what it is, low fuel I assume
     
  5. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    Well I got plenty of advice about connections but nobody mentioned coils. probably because I said the bike coughed like it wanted to start a couple times. The weak looking arcing from the plug to the frame, but not the electrode got me thinking coils. Now the Kid (PO #3) said he destroyed a battery trying t get it to start but wrote that off as not being able to charge it. So......not taking anything for granted, I tested the coils.


    First of all I had mixed matched coils 1 was a GIL OEM I assume and the other is PVL, it is also slightly wider and shorter than the GIL.


    both coils tested bad. 0.9 and 1.0 on the primary side respectfully and 0.0 on the secondary. That would explain the garage queen status she earned over the last couple years.


    Im on this, so as Paul Harvey used to say,...Stand by for news!
     
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  6. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    130 pounds sterling, on the way. PVL units. I read that PVL and Nology are the same, Im sure I was mistaken and I just threw good money after bad. Let you know next week after they arrive.
     
  7. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    I have owned this era of.Triumphs for 18 yrs. I have TWO of.them in fact. My first advice to anyone that wants to play with these is disconnect all the coil wires. Unbolt the coils [two in this case]. Carry them outside, and THROW THEM as far as you can !'. Buy new coils. They do not need to be expensive ones. THEN start work on making it run. ...J.D.
     
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  8. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    I converted my sprint 900 to stick units and its great, I should have done that this time
     
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  9. freck

    freck Elite Member

    May 4, 2017
    1,719
    750
    Preston, Lancs, UK
    I was thinking of doing that too but couldn’t find any conversions for the 4 cylinder 1200, only the triples. :confused:
     
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  10. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    No Kit, the components are not expensive, I had the part numbers in another thread, the sticks are new or used yamaha units and the connectors and wiring is straight up amazon Ford parts. I figure with the wasted spark you just wire in the coils 1 and 4 together and 2 and 3 so you use the original wiring for power and timing. I got used coils and new bits, did my 900 for like 60 bucks but I found coils for 10 each, that won't happen again. new are about 70 I think.
     
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  11. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    #11 Vecchio lupo, May 8, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    OK kiddies, progress report. new coils and cleaned the plugs, got consistent but weak spark (in my opinion, my honda 90 has a bright yellow almost blue fat spark), Bike started up and ran pretty smooth....but, there was a sound that was similar to a lifter hitting or maybe an exhaust leak pop. Worse with revs but after I got some heat into the engine that hadn't run in over a year the sound quieted down, then stopped altogether as it neared operating temperature. have to put some brain cells on that one.

    oil was clean-ish and the right amount. Dont know what weight or age. so first will be a service. she did run pretty damn smooth once the temp gauge got up to 3/4. Fan cycled on and maybe she just needs a redneck tune up,...i.e. run the dogs hit out of it for a few miles and see what shakes loose.
     
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  12. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,052
    750
    western Australia
    With it sitting so long , dry Cam's and valve stem's !?!? That could explain why it improved when it got hot , another possible explanation small leak in exhaust port or pipes which swells as it gets hot and seals !?!? Fix the coil/ignition problem and do a service then ride it ! Get a few thousand km under your belt on it , see how it responds to use !
     
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  13. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    Everybody likes good news.

    Today I went to the garage and ran her through another full heat cycle. The noise on startup yesterday was gone, and not even a hint of anything wrong. Also there was considerably less soot being blown out the exhaust compared to yesterday. I deduce that the afore mentioned bad coils went out slowly and caused much sooting up and ultra rich running for a while (couple years ago) . I am also guessing that the non running status dried out the top end and it just needed a little pressure to get everything lubed u again,

    At any rate I am in the process of putting the tank back on and then I'll change fluids as well as address the leaking front tire so I can go out into Carona World and just give it hell, blow it out and see what's left.
     
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  14. Vecchio lupo

    Vecchio lupo Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    411
    113
    Stuttgart
    Follow Up: So many times a thread just dies with no idea about what happened,....
    The Coils were bad (tested bad) , replaced with new...ouch 130 pounds which is like 150 dollars

    Battery was non existent so, new Yuasa unit.

    The plugs were so fouled that they would not spark the electrode, but would spark off the threads, New Plugs OEM style

    The Gas or Petrol, or Benzin, or GoGo Juice, whatever we all call it was so old it was orange (at least 18 months, probably 24) so clean carbs and fresh juice.

    The petcock knob (Insert joke here) crumbled when I tried to turn it and the valve itself was leaky and just general crusty. New Aluminium gas knob, no plastic for me, and 1 petcock rebuild kit later, we have free flow GoGo juice.

    Today she starts up on the first push of the button within 2 seconds or so, idles smooth, revs sharply and I have run several heat cycles through and the cooling system is AOK.

    Waiting for insurance and then a trip to my vehicle reg office and there is one more beast of a Daytona 1200 in the world out there scaring birds and squirrels and the odd Bonneville that didn't know that horrible hairy Mr Hyde is out there opposite their sensible Dr. Jekyl.

    All in all, I have spent about $275 and my time sorting out a very respectable Triumph Dinosaur. Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
     
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