Secondry Air Injection System.

Discussion in 'Bonneville' started by Malcolm Woods, Apr 14, 2020.

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  1. Malcolm Woods

    Malcolm Woods Noble Member

    Sep 16, 2019
    331
    313
    norfolk
    Hello all, Ive seen the videos on you tube regarding the SAIS and have come to the conclusion that just blocking the air pipe at the air box, which I have done this morning will do the same job as removing the complete system. Am I correct.??
    My only reason for doing this is that I know the vacuum operated valve in the system very often fails and causes the engine to run very lean, which is not good.
    Thanking You
    Mallywoods.
     
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  2. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme

    Nov 6, 2014
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    It’s a good way of checking that doing it will make a difference, if you find it does then a more permanent solution could be in order, which doesn’t mean ripping the whole system out
     
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  3. Rudeboy

    Rudeboy Senior Member

    May 2, 2017
    402
    113
    Bristol
    Hi all,
    All these methods will do the job you can even leave the air pump in situ under the tank with the pipework disconnected and the EML will not come on or fit the resistor,(the whole kit is available on ebay) and as smilinjack said above unscrew the air tubes next to the spark plugs and pop some blanking plugs in the holes,my reasons for removing it was changing the catalytic end cans for TORS open pipes the bike hated it popping and banging and generally running bad so I removed the entire system re-mapped the bike with tune ecu but the only thing done differently was unticked the box for the SAI no EML light as its now turned off,
     
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  4. Rocker

    Rocker Elite Member

    May 1, 2016
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    You can also reset the light with tune ecu
     
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  5. Malcolm Woods

    Malcolm Woods Noble Member

    Sep 16, 2019
    331
    313
    norfolk
    #5 Malcolm Woods, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
    Yes I know I can remove the whole system, but for now would rather leave it.
    My question is.. by blocking the air inlet pipe only at the air box, have I made the system completely unserviceable, as if I had removed everything.??
    Have to say that only running the engine until warm, then a few revs, the popping has stopped.
     
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  6. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    Nr Biggar
    The SAI pulls a fresh charge of air into the hot exhaust port to burn off residual unburnt fuel and improve tail pipe emissions. No air, no oxygen, no ignition.
     
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  7. Rudeboy

    Rudeboy Senior Member

    May 2, 2017
    402
    113
    Bristol
    Im not entirely sure if you block one end of it there would be no airflow the pump will still be running like
     
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  8. steve lovatt

    steve lovatt Something else

    May 12, 2014
    9,211
    1,000
    North Yorkshire
    Best to bin the whole lot - you'll never put it back on once it's been disconnected. :cool:
     
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  9. crispey

    crispey crispey creme de la creme

    Nov 6, 2014
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    It will be fine as long as you’ve got a good seal on the end of the pipe and the hole in the airbox. My brother ran his America like that for months with no problem
     
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  10. Malcolm Woods

    Malcolm Woods Noble Member

    Sep 16, 2019
    331
    313
    norfolk
    Just a bit worried that in the future the emissions will come in the test, at least all I have to do is unblock a pipe. Having just blocked the pipe the piping has stopped, maybe my imagination but I think the throttle response is better at the lower rev range. Maybe m
    Thanks for that, I am also wondering, maybe if the secondary air system is unavailable to the the engine, maybe the engine will be a bit cooler reducing the bluing at the exhaust. What's the thoughts and experiences on that theory???
     
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  11. Rudeboy

    Rudeboy Senior Member

    May 2, 2017
    402
    113
    Bristol
    Mine were blue before junking it and are still blue traditional triumph look id say I read somewhere that this system was fitted along with the cats to comply with emissions however in the uk at least the bikes dont get probed for emissions only visual neither have my loud pipes ever been a problem
     
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  12. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    Nr Biggar
    Firstly any regs change will not be retrospective. They never are.

    Bluing and temperature: the very absence of a secondary burn is why the header is made cooler. The bluing won’t disappear on its own but you won’t have the same degree of popping on the overrun.
     
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  13. Rocker

    Rocker Elite Member

    May 1, 2016
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    Take it off transforms the bike with better low down running
     
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  14. thebiglad

    thebiglad Old fart, still riding !

    Sep 25, 2013
    5,064
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    Hi Rudeboy, first thing to understand that is fitted to the Bonny does not have a pump of any kind. The AI system operates by the ECU sending signals to a solenoid operated valve at 0 - 6% throttle opening. This allows a small additional port aft of the exhaust vale to suck air through pipes leading to the airbox.

    The effect of this is to inject air (ie oxygen) into the very hot exhaust stream where it ignites any unburnt fuel (the popping). This occurs BEFORE the O² sensor and that's important to understand when contemplating any modifications.
     
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  15. Malcolm Woods

    Malcolm Woods Noble Member

    Sep 16, 2019
    331
    313
    norfolk
    So if I have just blanked of the air pipe at the air box, I needn't do any more, is that what you are saying??
     
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  16. Rocker

    Rocker Elite Member

    May 1, 2016
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    Think there's a thread on here about putting a large ball bearing in the pipe to block it off
     
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  17. Rocker

    Rocker Elite Member

    May 1, 2016
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    I took mine off did the air air box mod and with one tooth up on the front she'll do 100 mph in fourth :)
    And a tune ecu remap of course
     
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  18. Rudeboy

    Rudeboy Senior Member

    May 2, 2017
    402
    113
    Bristol
    Hi big
    Hi Big Lad not sure if we are on about older or newer machines here but when i referred to the pump i meant the small valve under the tank which when i disconnected all the pipes from and left in situ i could hear running very quietly sorry if ive said its a pump and not a solenoid or valve but agreed on what you stated above modded my 10 plate bonny and 16 plate thruxton by removing this purely to eliminate the popping on the overrun i guess its richened it up now
     
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  19. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,052
    750
    western Australia
    I have an 09 America , I have done the full SAI removal ! Did it in stages ! First stage ball bearing blocking the said intake , on America this pipe is located mid airbox on the left front pane as you look @ it front the seat. All good , popping reduced , no extra action required ! I went full removal for aesthetics/look's ! Then went even deeper for tuning ! Did internal air box work (removed barrier) put new hi flow air filter in and short open foran mufflers , dyno tune $460 went from 51 rear wheel HP to 57.7 rw HP and torque improved 4ft/lbs , used tuneecu to reset tables and turn said off in ecu (no mil) went further three yes ago !! Full 905 cc big bore kit with hi compression pistons , did port and polish on cylinder head , nearly 20 HP. Paid $500 for another dyno tune session now pumps out 75/80 HP . With a new one tooth smaller front sprocket it is faster off the mark by far than my tuned 98 sprint !!
    You can blank off the cylinder head said exhaust ports with car sump plugs ! They are same thread and size !
    It's up to you how much and how deep you wish to go ! $$$ or not ! Cost nothing for a ball bearing !

    cheers capt
     
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  20. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    Just to drive the nail out of sight......

    Bunging the hose will:

    Cool the header exhaust
    Reduce popping

    It will NOT make too much difference to throttle snatchiness. This is caused by the lambda sensor in an efi engine switching from closed to open loop as you come off idle and changing the air fuel ratio setting in the ECU. To achieve smoother running the sensor needs removing/isolating. In standard form the sensor does, of course, detect the effects of a functioning SAI system and your Efi is necessarily set up for emissions regs rather than totally smooth operation.
     
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