09 1600 Tbird Won't Start

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Rod Stewart, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Kinloss
    Hi I'm having a problem with my 09 1600 Tbird, went to start it yesterday when I pushed the start button got a loud click the ecu light went out and the Coolant overtemp light came on, after a few seconds everything reset but same again when I pushed the start button. I noticed there were no fuel gauge bars although the tank is nearly full. I removed the battery and tried with a fully charged car battery still the same symptoms. Fuses are all good I have removed the tank and checked out all of the connectors under there, also scoured the other forums and did lots of checks NO SUCCESS.
    I think I need some help(the wife agrees)
    1. checked the clutch switch
    2. Checked the Temp sensor (just below the carbs) 4Kohms
    3. Checked the Fuel contents connector seems ok (The content bars show during self test
    has anyone got any info ideas it would be much appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
     
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  2. Adie P

    Adie P Crème de la Crème

    Jul 7, 2018
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    Checked the battery earth?
     
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  3. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Kinloss
    yes the connection to the engine by the starter, connected the car battery neg to the frame as well seems ok, thanks
     
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  4. Adie P

    Adie P Crème de la Crème

    Jul 7, 2018
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    Hmmmm .... it sounds like it's displaying all the classic symptoms of low/no amps from the battery for the starter but, if you 've used a different battery and the earth is good it can't be that. Solenoid sticking?
     
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  5. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Could be the solenoid it does make a loud click when the start button is pressed, I will check the battery again tomorrow i'm using a new 70AH Lithium Ion car Battery it produces 12.8 v average so should be ok. I will try a different battery tomorrow, maybe remove the starter and check it over
     
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  6. dilligaf

    dilligaf Guest

    Not wanting to show grannie how to suck eggs but :confused: battery battery battery :eek:
    Like most modern bikes the ecu on your bike has protection built in and if it thinks that something is wrong with the battery or voltage it simply won’t play ball :(
    No good thinking that the battery is ok :confused: you have to be sure :)
     
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  7. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    I am with Dilli on this one. You need to be certain the battery is ‘up to snuff’ before assuming worse.....

    Supposing it is ok, I would check, ignition on, you have power to the coil +ve terminal (multimeter to Earth) and then, starter depressed, from starter motor connection to earth.

    The click is almost certainly your starter relay energising and feeding power to the starter circuit. If the starter motor is not getting any it is almost certainly the ECU registering insufficient power but if you get voltage starter motor stud to earth you know the motor is the problem. Checking coil power simply verifies the ignition circuit is healthy waiting for the starter circuit to complete its cycle.

    At this stage, fuel readings are a red herring.......unless it betrays a battery issue.
     
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  8. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Thanks for your help guys, Tried another battery today from an Audi A4 i'm sure it's not a battery issue, had the same symptoms so will check out the above suggestions tomorrow :)
     
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  9. joe mc donald

    Dec 26, 2014
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    Rod Stewart
    If you can get to the solenoid try short circuiting it to see if the motor turns over. It could be the starter motor jammed. Or try a high gear and rock the bike back and forth see if it releases the motor. And do make sure you have checked those safety switches properly and they are all doing what they should do. What year is the bike and any warranty on it.
    Regards
    Joe.
     
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  10. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Kinloss
    Hi Cal, carried oot the checks you suggested, there is 12v to the coils with the ignition on, and 12v to the starter without pressing the start button !!, next step i'll remove the starter tomorrow and bench test it if I get time,. my son-in-law turned up today with his a4 with a binding brake that took a couple of hours, now i have retired I seem to be busier than ever.:) again thanks for your help much appreciated.
     
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  11. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
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    Kinloss
    Hi Joe, thanks for your help, I have tried freeing the starter by rocking the bike no luck, I'll double check the safety switches, it's an 09 Tbird so no warranty, I bought her last year only 3.5 K miles and in very good condition, I can't really get to the solenoid so probably remove the starter and check it out.
     
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  12. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    A loud click when you press the starter is strongly suggestive of:

    Loose battery or solenoid terminal post connections.
    Defective starter motor (connections, worn brushes, etc),
    Or burned-out main contacts in solenoid.

    We are talking about this thing lurking under the side cover. It is just a hunky relay that uses a light current to switch to a heavy one.

    8A85A584-4946-4CEC-9B63-228D57DCB124.jpeg
     
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  13. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
    34
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    Kinloss
    Hi again, I had a few hours today on the TBird, I removed the starter and checked it out on the bench I attached a few pics, everything looks ok the main solenoid contacts look not too bad a wee bit of pitting which I cleaned up, re-fitted the starter and got the same clunk, measuring the voltage to the starter from the solenoid when I pressed the start button showed no volts from solenoid output, I then energised the solenoid directly from the battery and the engine turned over.
    Now.. I think the solenoid is being energised but not holding in, aaarggg.
    what now back to double check the safety interlocks

    ROD-20190418_123932.jpg

    ROD-20190418_124020.jpg

    ROD-20190418_124631.jpg

    ROD-20190418_124638.jpg

    ROD-20190418_123908.jpg
     
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  14. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    #14 Callumity, Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
    If it energises direct from the battery have you checked the starter button output feed? There is also potential for confusion between the solenoid/relay and the starter solenoid electro magnet that throws the bendix into mesh with the starter gear and makes motor electrical contact. You are playing with the latter. Have you checked the former?
     
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  15. joe mc donald

    Dec 26, 2014
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    Rod Stewart
    Failing all that you may have to check the sprag clutch sprocket see you don't have a broken tooth or jammed sprocket.
    Regards
    Joe.
     
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  16. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    6,026
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    What are you getting?

    Starting System Symptoms:

    Weak battery symptoms:
    -- Slow cranking.
    -- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
    -- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
    Repair:
    -- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
    Failure Modes:
    -- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
    -- Won't hold a charge.
    -- Low voltage/cell failure.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Check fluid levels regularly
    -- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

    Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
    -- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
    -- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
    -- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
    Repair:
    -- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None
    Testing:

    Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
    -- No spark at all
    -- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
    -- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
    Repair:
    -- Replace pickup coil
    Failure mode:
    -- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None. Get a spare.
    Testing:
    -- Ohms checks hot and cold.

    Worn starter symptoms:
    -- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
    -- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
    -- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
    Repair:
    -- Rebuild or replace.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
    -- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

    Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
    -- Very loud rattling when cranking
    -- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
    Falure Mode:
    -- Breakage
    Repair:
    -- Replace sprag clutch
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

    Worn starter solenoid:
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    -- Won't crank after rocking bike.
    -- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
    Failure mode:
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
    -- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None.
    Repair:
    -- Replace starter solenoid.
    Testing:
    -- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.
     
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  17. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
    34
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    Kinloss
    Hi Joe, I checked the sprag etc it looks ok with no damage, the engine cranks over, just not from the normal start cycle, see my previous post, ive now moved on to the starter relay it can be heard clicking but no output to the starter solenoid on pressing the start button, i'll get that checked out tomorrow,

    IMG_20170530_202525.jpg
     
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  18. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
    34
    13
    Kinloss
    Thanks for your help, it doesn't appear any of your list apply's :neutral:
     
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  19. Rod Stewart

    Rod Stewart Member

    Apr 14, 2019
    34
    13
    Kinloss
    I've moved on to the starter relay it clicks when the start button is pressed but there is no output to the starter solenoid will have to check it out tomorrow.Ta
     
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  20. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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