That There Bobber In Seattle Got Me Thinking!!

Discussion in 'Triumph General Discussion' started by stevethegoolie, Nov 13, 2018.

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  1. stevethegoolie

    stevethegoolie Elite Member

    Oct 16, 2014
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    #1 stevethegoolie, Nov 13, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    This can be dangerous under certain circumstances!
    However, his problems with his new bike got me wondering are bikes becoming too technical for their (our) own good?
    Many moons ago when I were a lad we had bikes with a couple of cylinders or so fired by a points and condenser system which even I could make work well. (Never had dealings with magnetos so don't ask!) A couple of carbs were relatively easy to sort out/balance at home with basic tools.
    Things got a bit more complex with the arrival of 3 and 4 cylinder machines, but they still were serviceable at home (mostly).
    Then came electronic ignition systems which were pretty much a good thing, even if they were out of bounds to most people.
    And so we sauntered along happily until electronic fuel injection turned up. Now 'we' are having to get clever!
    More reliance on dealers now for most folk.
    So far so good really I suppose.
    However, we now have bikes of modest performance using rider modes e.g. sport, normal rain etc.and using fly by wire throttle control. Speedometers and rev counters have been replaced by computer screens in many cases. I can go with a digital speed readout though - quite liked the one on my Daytona 955i, though I do prefer a rev counter with a more traditional dial.
    We now have ABS - a good thing - which would happily have on any bike of mine.
    We have traction control - err ... what is the twistgrip for if not for traction control, amongst other things. Surely this is not necessary on bikes of more 'modest' performance e.g sub 100bhp perhaps? Surely Bonnevilles and their rivals don't need such complications? Maybe they do but I can't see it myself.
    Are manufacturers forcing these things on us just because they can, and make more money from us at the same time? Then when these wondrous additions go wrong they can sell us new ones and the dealer gets his cut 'cos we can't fit them ourselves.
    To me, these technological 'advances' are just another problem waiting to happen. And do we actually need them? I've never had much of a problem with bikes up to 147bhp (claimed) and I would guess that many others on here will be the same.
    I take the point that anybody can 'get it wrong' occasionally - I certainly have - but do we really need to be wrapped up in cotton wool in this way? I'm not sure.
    Much good progress has been made over the years, by people much cleverer than I will ever be and I am grateful for that (disc brakes that actually work - they didn't work well at first, especially when it rained - grippy tyres which last many more miles than previously and much better suspension etc) as they have made my life easier,safer, and more pleasurable.
    I just get the feeling that it has all gone a bit too far.
    Anybody for one of the new Royal Enfield twins? The road tests of these were strangely quite refreshing as they are pretty basic machines, and even seemed to get applauded for that. Suspension was too basic apparently and they do lack power for my taste, but who knows what will happen in the future.

    So what do you all think? Am I being a total Luddite or are we all being ripped off?
    Me? I wear the mantle of a cynical Luddite.
     
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  2. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    I don't want all the gizmo's either but today's young wealthy technophobes do :-(, saying that Royal Enfield have a new model out and only £5500 for a 650 twin aint bad, i am sure they will have plenty of sales. Manufactures are missing a gap in the market by not offering a basic model suely but would i bother making a cheaper bike if i could sell all my overpriced bikes, probably not. Sales of most items are today aimed at the wealthy young as i guess it's the most gullible market lol and of course it's a well known fact that the UK buyer will pay over the odds for just about anything :-(
     
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  3. Bad Billy

    Bad Billy Baddest Member

    Jun 1, 2017
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    I know what you are getting at here, I had a 2005 GSX-R 1000, it had around 170bhp at the rear wheel and no switchable modes/TC/ABS, I managed just fine, it was one of the most exhilarating bikes I have ever ridden, if you took liberties with the throttle is had the potential to bite. Fast forward 12 years and I was riding a Street 765RS with all the rider aids you can shake a stick at and only 120ish bhp, why could I conceivably need all of these rider aids?
    The truth is I didn't, but because I had them I pushed my luck more, I would crack the throttle open while still banked over, I would brake later and harder, because I could! A couple of times when in Spain I really did overdo it into corners on roads I had never seen before, I am pretty sure that the gizmo's saved me from an off, but if I didn't have them would I have been pushing that hard? probably not, so do they give you a false sense of security?
    All of that said I enjoyed both bikes immensely for slightly differing reasons, so you pays your money ....
     
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  4. Oldyam

    Oldyam Grumpy Old Git

    May 14, 2017
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    To be honest I'm with you all of the way here, I run older vehicles because they are older tech and I CAN fix them .............. I also beleive that lower tech is better ( less to go wrong ) a basic ignition system + abs is a good combination, once it starts getting too clever its problems waiting to happen.

    Look back to the reliability of the 90's triumphs and other makes of that era, and then look at additional stuff on bikes now that very rarely gets used and / or causes regular problems.

    As an ex field service engineer its usually the add-ons ( bells & whistles ) to the system that cause the most agro & down time .............. basic is very often Very reliable. I've always been slow to change to the latest tech as they get to work out the bugs with other people first,.

    Being a Luddite is good ........:D:D
     
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  5. Callumity

    Callumity Elite Member

    Feb 25, 2017
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    It’s a combination of effete planet saving moccasin wearing types who could not kickstart a magneto monster and environmental regs designed to save the planet.
    Meanwhile the Third World carries on polluting and deforesting with barely a pause.
    Apparently we are all making progress but not necessarily in the same direction.
     
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  6. Col_C

    Col_C I can't re...Member

    Aug 5, 2015
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    My thoughts exactly Steve!!
    I saw the light during my two year ownership of a 2013 Multistrada 1200S, all the bells and whistles and yes quite a few of them went wrong on a regular basis. Being a 3 hour round trip to my nearest dealer didn't help, nor did the dealer insisting on seeing the fault before putting in a claim and ordering the parts for me to return yet again. So what was a very nice bike to ride became a complete pain in the arse to own after the umpteenth visit sitting in the dealers cafe all day.
    Electronically adjustable suspension was nice when setting off with pillion and luggage, but was a few spanners so much trouble when I had the SprintST before? I think not.
    Semi-active suspension gave a nice ride over all types of road, but was that partly just the long travel suspension doing its thing?
    Rider modes - after the honeymoon period it ended up in "Touring" and stayed there until I got rid, when you've got a throttle connection and suspension setting that is "right" why would you ever want a different "mode" that isn't? (and how many people actually take their gazillion £ adventure bike off-road, I never did get to try "Enduro" mode)
    My thoughts on "rider aids" - abs is a wonderful safety net that saves us from ourselves when the unexpected (out of our control) happens in front of us, and cornering abs (the only thing my 2015 Speed Triple lacks) even better. But traction control and different power modes, are they really necessary on a road bike, if you can't control your right hand (or are riding that close to the edge) then may be you shouldn't be riding on public roads.
    So, it's no accident that I rushed out and bought one of the last "dumb" Speed Triples, now the warranty is finished I need never darken the doors of my (not very) local dealer again, my Speedy is a keeper.
    I'm sure the latest Speed Triple is that bit faster, etc, etc, but the added complexity and the increase in problems is plain to see on this forum (cue indignant response from satisfied owners :D)
    Yes I accept there will be those lucky enough to have a good one and will fully enjoy their bike, but I'm with Steve in the Cynical Luddite club.

    I do wonder whether there will eventually be a rebound in consumer "wants" back to the simple/basic two wheeler.
    ...............But I suspect legislation will prevent that.
     
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  7. Col_C

    Col_C I can't re...Member

    Aug 5, 2015
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    Warning! - going off topic already! :)

    So my comments above (and BB's) suggest what is necessary for sensible public road use is not the same as what is good for cutting edge track use, and there lies the problem, manufacturers want a good track bike (it drives sales) but doesn't necessarily make a good road bike for the consumer - beyond pub bragging rights.
    I've followed WSB and MotoGP for years, I always thought WSB was supposed to be at least loosely based on production bikes.
    So Johnny Rea is so good he's made WSB boring, lets change the rules to penalise him (didn't work anyway). So what do Kawasaki do to their "production" ZX10, tweak the valve system to negate the disadvantage. I guess you could argue WSB serves it's purpose in bringing forward development - but does a road sports bike need that?
    And don't even get me started on the new Panigale V4, sex on wheels a beautiful bike, but the special homologated 1000cc version for WSB complete with wings - shouldn't that be competing in MotoGP?
    At least Johnny's going to have his work cut out next year. :)
     
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  8. tcbandituk

    Subscriber

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. stevethegoolie

    stevethegoolie Elite Member

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    Having read all of the above, I feel a warm cosy glow washing over me, and feel safe in the knowledge that it's not just me that feels this way:).
    Thanks for the reassurance, chaps.:cool:
    No doubt others will disagree:confused:, but that is what life is all about I guesso_O.
     
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  10. Oldyam

    Oldyam Grumpy Old Git

    May 14, 2017
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    They wouldn't dare :joy::joy::joy::joy:
     
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  11. stevethegoolie

    stevethegoolie Elite Member

    Oct 16, 2014
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    :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
     
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  12. Tony Richardson

    Tony Richardson Active Member

    Sep 15, 2018
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    807942DC-DFF9-4A67-A052-62480B39F3DF.jpeg This is my favourite ride, all old school .........!
     
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  13. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
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    Although I have no problem with technology [retired engineer] there are some places where it is just not needed. Motorcycles are one of those places. If you cannot ride without all those rider assistance features, I suggest ridnig a tricycle. As for me, I am keeping it simple with three old carburetted Hinckley Triumphs. ...J.D.
    The fleet -2015.JPG
     
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  14. Retired Phil

    Retired Phil Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2017
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    Mostly agree with all the above. But, several years ago i was on a 3 day ride up to Canada, on my BMW K1300S. Weather was pouring, i mean a real toad strangler. Some where outside Seattle Washington on the freeway a taxi cut me off and had to either grab the stoppers or evade. So i leaned, gave it a little gas and moved over a lane. As i scooted around the azz, the rear tire went over painted lane divider. I felt the rear start to slid when the TC momentarily kicked in and I have no doubt saved my bacon. So, technology not so bad.
     
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