2001 Rs Sprint 955i Wont Start

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by RobBr, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. RobBr

    RobBr New Member

    Jul 15, 2017
    9
    3
    Dereham, Norfolk
    Your help and experience would be much appreciated.

    I have a 2001 RS Sprint which had been stripped for track days, (but apparently not used). I have put it back on the road and has been running quite well the few times I have been out on it. The exception was that after a run it started getting a little "lumpy" in traffic. Because It hadnt been used much in the recent past, I wondered if the injectors had got a little gummed up so treated it to some Shell v-power or whatever their expensive unleaded is called. All was well on the run home. Started it the other day and it was "lumpy" from the start. Turned it off to go and get the leathers on and after that it wouldnt start. Left it a while, still wouldnt start.

    I put my OBD reader on it and it showed P0230 and P1231, both are associated with fuel pump or fuel pump relay. The bike doesnt have a fuel pump relay. Checked the pump connections, seemed o.k. So tried again this morning, and the same. I had bought a new Relay for the ecu, as some posts suggested this might be a cause, but this made no difference. When I try to clear the codes it says they are erased but with the ignition on, they either dont get erased or reappear immediately.

    I have now taken the tank off, and everything seems in order, except for the fuel level sensor cable, which must have been very loose as just raising the tank disconnected it.

    I dont suppose that this loose cable could be the cause could it? perhaps fooling the ecu there was no fuel.

    I currently have the battery on charge so havent put it all back, but if anybody has had the same experience their advice and solution would be appreciated. cheers.
     
  2. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    6,026
    1,000
    uk
    Starting System Symptoms:

    Weak battery symptoms:
    -- Slow cranking.
    -- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
    -- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
    Repair:
    -- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
    Failure Modes:
    -- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
    -- Won't hold a charge.
    -- Low voltage/cell failure.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Check fluid levels regularly
    -- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

    Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
    -- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
    -- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
    -- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
    Repair:
    -- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None
    Testing:

    Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
    -- No spark at all
    -- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
    -- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
    Repair:
    -- Replace pickup coil
    Failure mode:
    -- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None. Get a spare.
    Testing:
    -- Ohms checks hot and cold.

    Worn starter symptoms:
    -- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
    -- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    Failure Mode:
    -- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
    -- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
    Repair:
    -- Rebuild or replace.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
    -- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

    Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
    -- Very loud rattling when cranking
    -- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
    Falure Mode:
    -- Breakage
    Repair:
    -- Replace sprag clutch
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- Maintain battery in peak condition.
    -- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

    Worn starter solenoid:
    -- Click from under seat but no cranking.
    -- Won't crank after rocking bike.
    -- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
    Failure mode:
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
    -- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
    -- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
    Preventative Maintenance:
    -- None.
    Repair:
    -- Replace starter solenoid.
    Testing:
    -- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.
     
  3. RobBr

    RobBr New Member

    Jul 15, 2017
    9
    3
    Dereham, Norfolk
    Hi thanks for the reply but these are unlikely to give the messages, as the messages are fuel pump related. The battery is new and was fully charged, there are new plugs and coil packs, new filters (air and fuel) and all was working fine.
    Hi, thanks for the reply, but dont think its any of these. New battery, plugs, coils air filter, fuel filter etc. Has run fine for 3or 4 longish rides, codes pointing towards fuel pump.
     
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  4. deaks25

    deaks25 Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2018
    76
    68
    Birmingham, UK
    I don't know the Sprint RS specifically so am going off general knowledge here.

    Daft ones first:
    - Have you checked the fuse for the fuel pump (There should be one given it'll have it's own feed)?
    - Does the fuel pump work? There should be a small noise of the fuel pump priming the system. Basically it pulls some fuel through the system so the engine isn't trying to run on the air in the fuel lines. There will be a way to test the pump using a multimeter, but electrics aren't my thing (I hate electrical gremlins!!) so not sure what the process would be.
    - I assume you've checked there are no leaks/splits in the fuel line when doing the filter.
    -Could there be a blockage/clogging in the injectors? I'm guessing the fuel pump sensor is reading fuel pressure in the injectors. Tasty petrol isn't going to help much with a blockage, you'd need injector cleaner or replace them outright.

    Does it still run even with the error codes? Does it struggle to get started compared to when it's been error free? How does it run when cold & at running temps (i.e. is there a difference)?

    If it was me, assuming the fuses are good & no fuel leaks (even a drip has a massive effect!), I'd see about testing the fuel pump, perhaps remove & clean the injectors. I'd also start trolling ebay for working replacements.
     
  5. RobBr

    RobBr New Member

    Jul 15, 2017
    9
    3
    Dereham, Norfolk
    Thanks for the response. I have now got it running again although a little lumpy.
    As I said in the original post, the error messages pointed towards the fuel pump.
    In readiness I picked up a used one from ebay and put 12v across and it hummed merrily. With the tank off I pit 12v across the pump in the tank, and hey presto, not only did it humm but it pumped fuel. Well I sprayed and cleaned all the electrical connectors, put the tank back on and she started first time. As I said she is a bit lumpy at the moment, but started 3 times on the trot.
    As I said before, she was running lumpily at lower revs before, so I had put some Shell V power in that has injector cleaners in it and some redex injector cleaner, but hadnt had a chance to rhn it through.
    The other thing that was suggested on another Sprint site was the possibility of the Idle speed control tubes having perished, so I have taken the tank back off again, and although they looked o.k. I have replaced the pipes, so we will see when I get a chance to put it together again and get it out on the road. But at least it starts again, I can only assume that it was a poor connection somewhere in the fuel pump circuit, and cleaning it did the trick, but why it suddenly stopped working, I have no idea.cheers
     
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  6. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky Crème de la Crème

    Dec 12, 2016
    2,444
    1,000
    Norfolk UK
    One of the biggest causes of problems on EFI systems is bad earths/ paths, it causes all sorts of flaky sensor and component behavior, always worth going through earth connections and cleaning periodically as being open to the weather bikes suffer much more than cars.
     
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  7. deaks25

    deaks25 Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2018
    76
    68
    Birmingham, UK
    Glad you got it sorted. I imagine the lumpiness is the lack of running and ineffective fuelling it's had to put up with.

    At least you've personally gone over what sound like problem areas & addressed any issues, means you can be fairly confident the fuel system is in good nick :blush:
     
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  8. James Mcandrew

    James Mcandrew New Member

    Sep 8, 2019
    3
    3
    Wales
    Hi all sorry to jump on this old thread but its pretty much the same problem as im having.
    Hope you can help. Only just bought this bike and having put a new battery on it started and ran fine. Stared 2 or 3 times no problem atall. This evening i go to start it to take it for mot in the morning and it turns over like a dream but wont start. On the dash it says low oil so i put some in.... Nothing.
    Its got pretty much a full tank of good fuel and still nothing. Plugged odb reader in and it says
    P0463 fuel level sensor circuit high input
    Any ideas as im stumped.
    Im good with mechanics but new to bikes so anything too tricky i might have to put it in to be done but if its fairly straightforward ill do it myself

    Any help would b good
    Thanks
     
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