Technical / Diagnostic Help Request

Hey,

My 12' Street Triple is very unwell and I'm all out of ideas as to what might be wrong :-(
Bike only has just over 6,000 miles on it, and it lives in a garage.

Problem description:
Was running fine, then squirted it with a pressure washer (not smart I know #shame). Then it intermittently seemed to drop a cylinder, then dropped two, then all.
turns over fine, but doesn't even try and fire most of the time, occasionally sounds like one cylinder tries to fire but that's not enough to run on its own and then it reverts back to not firing.

Diagnostics I have done:

1. Fault Codes (dealerTool): None.
2. Spark test, All - I get a spark ( Coil lent against the frame with the plug in, turn over can see the spark and looks strong)
3. Fuel Delivery system - total disassembly (minus fuel pump/filter) and check all is good - Dealer tool reports injectors pulsing - all pinout tests - all report good ( Can't test if the injectors are blocked, but all 3 at the same time seems unlikely) - Used the pump test to empty the tank, and fuel quality and flow rate were good.
4. Air - I gots air.
5. Main ground point in the centre of the bike to the frame looked ok, but cleaned/decreased and tightened, same with battery terminals.
6. Used DealerTool to look at sensor values etc.
   1. Throttle position sensor = good
   2. MAP = good,
   3. Fall detection switch = good
   4. Side stand switch = good
   5. Clutch switch = Good
   6. Throttle balance shows good pressure and balanced
   7. O2 = Good
   8. Secondary Air Injection = Good
   9. Timing etc = good.
7. As the Injectors are pulsed, ASSUME that the crank position sensor is good
8. All Fuses are good, connections cleaned.

So, I'm out of ideas of what else it could be, and very much open to suggestions

 

Did it go faulty right after you power washed it ?

 

Yea just about.

 

Then I'd open up everything you can and just hope it dries out. It's really windy where I live, it's a good drying day.

 

Oh how I wish for that to be the case, but its been siting in my garage in various states of reconstruction for about a month now, and the issue persists.

 

Water in your spark plug cylinders?

 

As an old mechanic, my advice would.be to check out all the low voltage electronics.[ I am thinking water shorting out a sensor]. Most sensors are low voltage and measure a resistance or current flow. Some are a range.[4-20ma is common], some sensors are.simply a toggle function [yes or no]. If they are shorted by water they will not be reading correctly. It is obviously electrical. I know that is kind of general. It has enough information to fire it's ignition. How about MAF or manifold pressure sensors ? ...J.D.

 

I'm at a loss then, sorry.
But still there's no harm in getting it outside, take the seat off and anything else you can and let it get some air. You never know.

 

Are you quite sure there is no water in the fuel? It would sink to the bottom of the tank and into the fuel lines to the injectors. WD40 will help dry out suspect wiring.
However, all other things being equal, ignition needs fuel, air, compression and a well timed spark. So, if the plugs are getting damp and the air box isn’t awash I would try cranking it in the dark and look for fireworks. You may find the HT is finding an easier route to earth than via an installed plug. Leads in right order?
A can of Easy Start might just repay the investment.

 

unfortunately as I've had all t he plugs out, this isn't the case.

 

I agree its defiantly electrical, and a sensor of some description is playing up, the difficult part is trying to identify which one. I'm certainly no mechanic, so operating in the dark so to speak.

I shall endeavour to identify sensors involved in the starting of the bike and try to test them. MAP and MAF should be next on the list!

thanks for your suggestions

 

I agree its defiantly electrical, and a sensor of some description is playing up, the difficult part is trying to identify which one. I'm certainly no mechanic, so operating in the dark so to speak.

I shall endeavour to identify sensors involved in the starting of the bike and try to test them. MAP and MAF should be next on the list!

thanks for your suggestions

 

Have you unplugged the engine management system and checked the connectors for water

 

I'm fairly certain that there is no water in the fuel, but as I've yet to inspect the pump and filter I shall be draining the tank completely which should eliminate this from the equation

The rest of the fuel delivery system, line to rail, rail, breather tubes and injectors have been disassembled for inspection for blockages and pin-out test and are all good.

I've done checks on the plugs and coils, and have visually seen the spark, which looks strong - Triumph did a good job wiring my bike it seems, so it isn't possible to get the coils in the wrong order, without hacking up the wiring in a very obvious way, so I'm happy that the order isn't the issue.

WD40 on suspect wiring is a good shout, as is the can of easy start (couldn't hurt!)

Thanks for the suggestions/input

 

yup, sure have bud

 

Ozzy001: Yeh...This.kind of thing can be kind of maddening. Most systems [and.I will readily admit, I am not familiar with this one] will not show every sensor on it's diagnostics. If water got in to one of the senors itself, it is probably toast. What kind of fuel pressure control does it use ? ...J.D.

 

To quote from the manual:
"Fuel pressure is controlled by a regulator also situated inside the fuel tank."

The fuel pump makes all the right noises, and flow was good when I used it to empty tank, although I have no basis of reference as far as the pressure goes hehe.

 

The regulator is.probably integrated.with the pump. I wonder.where.the pressure sensor is. I got.in to one on a friend's pickup truck a few years back. it turned out to be a pressure regulator. If it has a seperate pressure sensor in the fuel rail that got.soaked, I could see it being a potential.problem. Mixture is.usually controlled by MAF, and sometimes absolute manifold pressure, but fuel pressure has to be in spec.for those calculations to be correct..The computer.then drives the injector.dwell timing.to meter fuel. ...J.D.

 

Right -O chaps and Chapesses I have finally found out what issue was!


After a complete disassembly and reassembly, and a worn-out battery on my multimeter and some sore fingers later, it was...... water in the gas tank

 

This is a real shot in the dark but it may be possible.
Have you checked your side stand and clutch lever switches ?
Admitably my triple has carbies but I had an issue with bad starting, it took ages to fire. Sparks and fuel were good, neutral light was showing but maybe a switch is sticking because when I pull the clutch lever in its fires straight up with no problems.
Might be worth trying.
A friends BMW had some similar issues which I traced to a faulty relay for the injectors.
Hope this is of some help
Lez