from the ashes rose a Phoenix

Electrical Starting Problems
I figured I'd put up a list of starting symptoms since they're pretty common, along with some troubleshooting and PM tips.

Copy this and stick it in a file somewhere. It might become useful all of a sudden.

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Starting System Symptoms:

Weak battery symptoms:
-- Slow cranking.
-- Stops cranking suddenly on compression stroke with button pressed.
-- Starts when starter button is released at end of cranking.
Repair:
-- Charge/Test/Replace battery.
Failure Modes:
-- Loss of capacity. Appears to charge, voltage good but no reserve for starting.
-- Won't hold a charge.
-- Low voltage/cell failure.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Check fluid levels regularly
-- Maintain full charge: Regular riding, trickle charger.

Ignition Coil failure symptoms:
-- Hard starting/misfiring during cranking.
-- Rough idle that can't be tuned out with carb adjustments and carb cleaning.
-- Idle misfire clears with new sparkplugs, returns in a few hundred miles
Repair:
-- Replace: Preferably with Nology for higher reliability than stock Gill coils.
Failure Mode:
-- Shorted turns in secondary resulting in weak spark.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None
Testing:

Pickup Coil failure symptoms:
-- No spark at all
-- Spark quits with engine hot, returns when engine cool.
-- Note: Pickup coil failure is total. There is no random misfire spark loss.
Repair:
-- Replace pickup coil
Failure mode:
-- Thermal intermittant with long (15-30 minute) period.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None. Get a spare.
Testing:
-- Ohms checks hot and cold.

Worn starter symptoms:
-- Sometimes won't crank until the bike is rocked in gear.
-- Excessively noisy cranking with a grinding sound.
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
Failure Mode:
-- Brush wear progressing to commutator damage.
-- Bearing failure related to brush wear.
Repair:
-- Rebuild or replace.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintan battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.
-- Crank 5-10 seconds at a time max., switch off for twice as long before cranking again.

Worn sprag clutch symptoms:
-- Very loud rattling when cranking
-- Starter spins but engine doesn't turn
Falure Mode:
-- Breakage
Repair:
-- Replace sprag clutch
Preventative Maintenance:
-- Maintain battery in peak condition.
-- Follow proper starting procedures. Neutral, clutch in.

Worn starter solenoid:
-- Click from under seat but no cranking.
-- Won't crank after rocking bike.
-- Starter continues to run after bike starts and won't stop until the battery is disconnected.
Failure mode:
-- Internal contact damage resulting in non-conduction.
-- Internal contact damage resulting in contacts welding shut.
-- Internal damage/wear prevents solenoid core movement.
Preventative Maintenance:
-- None.
Repair:
-- Replace starter solenoid.
Testing:
-- For no cranking, short across solenoid high-power terminals. Normal operation denotes failed solenoid contacts.

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Please free to comment, make suggestions, etc.

 

Evening fellas........had the carbs off and apart today......everything was clean as a whistle....nothing seems to be out of place,bent or damaged......next is to check the spark again and cranking power.......that's tomorrow....wish me luck........

 

Good luck!

 

Did you clean them?

 

think the fella I had the bike off must have cleaned them but I did wipe them out with some absorbent cloth......think they're ok to go back on.......

 

carb cleaner is designed to clean the small jets and degunk the chambers. Sonic cleaning is best, I suggest googling in your area you may find a specialist lots of engineering places have sonic cleaners it shouldnt be expensive.





http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless...352197?hash=item4b0caf2585:g:zqIAAOSw5cNYLdqu


.

 

Ok .......latest update........spark on all three plug but its extremely weak......when I say weak I mean helpless.....so I'm on to cranking power next to boost the spark.......cleaned all the ignition contact points for good connection so its just battery power......I hope........

 

Will it bump start ?

 

Attach a big f*** off battery via jump leads and see what happens. This really should have been your first port of call imo because it's easy and doesn't cost anything.

 

One big f### off battery coming up...............

 

Good man Jennoe

 

Well.......a big f### off battery didn't work.......just lots of fuel everywhere again...........

 

if the fuels coming out, then I think the floats in the bowls ,in the bottom of the carbs, are sticking, cos they are drity or set up wrong

 

The float needle valves are sticking on at least one of your carbs. (the one fuel pouring out of)
The float levels are set and cannot be altered the float arrangement is a white plastic arrangement that can if needed be pulled out for cleaning you should be able to see the float valve check it can move freely, spray around with carb cleaner and then give light !! spray of easy start or WD40 as the carb cleaner dries everything out and can leave prone to sticking.

If you are going to take carbs apart do one at a time and lay parts out on clean cloth be careful to check manual if others have had apart before may have lost the odd o ring. can get a big box of assorted o rings off ebay for about a fiver.

In the short term though just to try and get running would just check floats without full strip down as it sounds like your close to getting it started.

 

If these are mikuni carbs it could be just a needle circlip come adrift

 

Cheers fellas.........this has become a pride thing........that and I'm as stubborn as f###........I will get her started but I just can't help thinking that I've missed something.........the carbs are Keihin if that makes a difference.......

 

yes makes a difference keihins dont have needle circlip

 

hey Jennoe, where ya been? Uok mate ?

 

Hey Jennoe ,still with us??