Yes but . . . good point. Both my spare passive keys are kept in my Triumph folder in the living room cupboard. OK . . . I've just been and tried again with the Smart Key - dead as a dodo . . no response. I switched off the Smart Key and placed it down away from the bike then placed the passive key on top of the rear shock and powered on - nothing happened for about 3-4 seconds and then the bike powered on - this delay in powering up with the passive key is recurrent and seems normal. I then powered the bike down with the passive key in position. I now removed the passive key away from the bike, switched on the Smart key and a single press of the power button and the bike powered up and when repeated, subsequently powered down normally with the key left on the rider's seat. I powered on and off 3 times and on each occasion, the power-on was near instantaneous. Unless I'm missing something, this must mean the keyfob itself is exonerated and the guilty party has to be the bike itself. I am working on my 1050 Tiger today and so periodically will power up the S3 and see if it keeps responding to the Smart key and/or how long it is before it decides to go into a coma again!!! grrrrhhhh . . . I wish the thing had a normal key for gawd's sake - what a load of pish!!
Yes it makes you wonder if keyless ignition is worth the bother, especially when you check out the cost of the components. The keyless ecu for example appears to be in excess of £650. The antenna seems to be the only reasonably priced item at about £15.
For now at least, I would suggest folks might like to add the following "mental note" to their owners manuals . . . . . 1. If you power up using the smart key and leave the bike's power switch in the "ignition off" position, the bike will remain powered unless you either switch off the key or remove it from the immediate proximity of the bike. This will not happen with the power switch in the "run" position regardless of the key status. If you power up using the passive key - the same scenario will result in the bike switching itself off after about 3-4 minutes regardless. 2. If your bike is unresponsive to the smart key and you have checked the key is switched on and the battery is in otherwise good health, normal operation can likely be resumed (albeit perhaps only temporarily) by powering up the bike using one of the Passive keys placed on top of the rear shock reservoir. When doing so, press the power button once and then wait 4-5 seconds before the bike to power up as it does not do so immediately as it normally would with the smart key.
Gulp!!!! . . . . .I won't be replacing that anytime soon - I could always try an antenna I guess but need to cycle this thing enough times over the next summer to see if either I can identify a pattern or it fails totally. Just been and checked again after 30-minute "off" period and she powered on fine with the key in my pocket
Am I right in assuming that the smart key always works in the quickstart position enabling the bike to be started and that the only issue is with the powering up switch position?
No - When the smart key fails it does so in both positions power only and quickstart. The only way I can restore either is to power up with the passive key and then back off again. I have just been back outside to test and the bike is once again unresponsive to the smart key . . . dead as a dodo. It seems that once its function has been restored by using the passive key, it doesn't remain functional for very long as it was only reset a couple of hours ago. Buggerations . . . something here clearly not right. Guess I'm going to have to speak to the stealer and/or do a bit of research but no way am I forking out for a new ECU if they're £650 - I'll just break the bike for parts. It's only got 1500 miles on it!! just went back outside . . . . powered up with passive key but this time - Smart key wouldn't subsequently work. Repeated a further 3 times and remained unresponsive to Smart key!!! Placed Smart key (switched on) on the rear shock reservoir and it powered up instantly (without the usual 3-4 second delay of a passive power-up) and it's back working again. hmm . . . . flippin thing's haunted!!! I wonder if it somehow needs syncing with the smart key? When it powers on passively, there is a definite delay between pressing the power button and the lights etc coming on. When I just now used the Smart key (switched on) on the shock, the power up was instant which suggests that it was using the smart key in smart mode rather than passive mode. I had done nothing different other than holding the key against the shock and . . it powered up. This perhaps suggests the issue is something to do with range maybe?? After having been powered up for a while, the keyless system maintains its range for an hour or two and then loses it - perhaps an aerial problem. Will see how long it now keeps working . . . .
Yep, could be. I know there's fuel stations that have lights that "disable" some cars that won't start etc and if moved away from the forecourt a bit, all good. However, it's Not sure if you are aware of this (it does work, I tried) is that if the normal key is switched off, it'll work still as a passive key. ps, ignore the top bit!
It's looking like a dealer visit might be your only option as a last resort, annoying as that is. They may be able to check the smart key alone without the bike (not sure). I assume the standard key as well as the smart key operates via the antenna and as the standard key still works then that suggests that the antenna is functioning and not in need of replacement although It might be worth checking the antenna connector.
Before you vi$it $tealer$hip $ervice ... open the fob, pop out the battery, tweak all the battery contact arms to be a little more aggressive, swab with alcohol, wipe battery and install without fingerprints, reassemble ... it's a free experiment!
Thanks all of you for your helpful replies. I was aware the smart key can be used as a passive key when switched off and held on the rear shock . . have done it a few times. I'm not going to tiddle with the fob battery at this point as I already changed it and was mindful of fingerprints etc. When I check its status (on or off) by briefly pressing the button on the fob, the light immediately comes on (red or green) to acknowledge its status and the bike powers up routinely simply by using the passive key and then returning to the smart key which wouldn't happen if the battery was the issue. That said, I might revisit but I don't see any mileage in it yet. The slightly more positive news is that I might be on to something after this afternoon . . . . . I am beginning to think this issue could be software-driven simply because if something was wrong with the hardware, such as a duff antenna, it would seem reasonable to think the fault wouldn't self-rectify just by using a passive key only for the bike to then turn back to dodo mode simply after sitting for an hour powered down. The only thing I did which could have corrupted the software was remove the battery in the bike some months prior to this issue happening and then again when I then switched it for a new one but of course, that was after this problem first started. Clive Woods (of independent Triumph service fame) told me the later Triumph systems can be fickle and when changing the battery, to be sure to make the connection swiftly and consistently rather than allowing the battery to connect and disconnect whilst securing the terminals. OK . . . it's a wildshot but for whatever reason, I'm wondering if some kind of reset is availabe and I will scour through my official service manual to just check. Meanwhile, this afternoon when the bike didn't want to power up and was ignoring the smart key, I wanted to reset it and decided to try something different and so held the Smart key against the top of the rear shock but left the key switched on and the bike powered up but some 5 hours later is still acknowledging the key - proof of the pudding will come in the morning when I try again after having left the bike overnight. Watch this space . . . . At least we now have an answer for the bike switching itself off which is quite clearly a design feature but it would have been good if Triumph could have been arsed enough to let us know!!!!!
Well . . I couldn’t resist. Went outside for a late night check and the old gal’s been vamped and is dead again. Will remove fob battery and try to adjust the connections as you guys have suggested and being my only other DIY option. Have read through my service manual and it seems there is a keyless electronic control module (ECM), an engine ECM, the electronic steering lock and the transponder chips in the keys, all of which need to be paired. The Keyless ECM does produce and store error codes and these can be checked if necessary and might give a steer but I wouldn’t mind betting that Dealertool only checks the Engine ECM and if so, it’s a dealer job for sure. I will be a happy man and owe a few drinks if it turns out to be the fob connections - will let you know!!
So let me describe what I found in my key fob. There are 2 connections to the battery of course. First connection, there are the two arms that touch the side of the battery, no problems there. Where my fob had (has?) issues is the the part with the 3 arms that touches the broad side. IT'S NOT SOLDERED TO ANYTHING IN THE FOB. It's literally floating, literally a press fit -- which was the root cause of my fob issue in my opinion. I jammed it down as hard as I could to force the fit (to press harder against the metal strip on the pcb). So far it's been working. But I really need to invest in a micro-solder tool so I can drop a tiny blob of solder and make the connection permanent. I don't even know if it's a feasible repair for a home user, it's quite tight inside the fob of course.
I bent those three prongs very slightly upwards one at a time whilst holding down the centre and whilst doing so, I noticed it move and so, like you, realised the contact is wedged against the two PCB contact pads but in fairness. It is held pretty tight and so I discounted this as an issue but did make sure it was correctly positioned. I will test it this morning but am expecting it to fail -hopefully not!! If it does, there is one more thing I can do which is to check the LF antenna is properly attached - worth taking a look I guess.
it's a shame that Xorbe is over the other side of the pond as preliminary results suggest I might owe him a cold beer!! I went out to the garage this morning and bingo - she powered up fine. I think I'm going to have to repeat this throughout the day and coming couple of weeks to be sure but if this has cured it, I'm both relieved and amazed. I'm amazed because in my mind at least, I had done enough tests to suggest the keyfob wasn't the issue but if it was this all along, it would suggest that powering up the bike just once, somehow increases the range of the LF Transmitter antenna so that the fob is able to respond despite its dodgy connection but this increased range/sensitivity is subsequently lost over the next hour or so whilst the bike is powered down. Sadly, I don't know enough about Electrickery to know but so far so good . . . . bizarre. If this has cured the issue and given my adjustments were so small, I'm inclined to agree with Xorbe and think the poor contact wasn't between the battery and its contacts but between the positive connector strip and the two pcb contact pads. I hadn't seen Xorbe's post at the time and accidentally dislodged this very slightly whilst adjusting the three positive contact arms. When gently sliding it back into position, it is possible that any minor oxidation or contamination was removed. Hey ho, I will test over the next few days. Watch this space . . . . .
OK . . . . I've powered up about 4 times today, the last time being just now at nearly 10.00pm - it's fixed. It worked perfectly on each occasion. The bike switching itself off turned out to be as per and they all do it given the same circumstances - ie power on without igntion and key taken "off-site" or switched off and . . . A poor connection in the key fob battery gave rise to a most confusing set of symptoms and weird behaviour. I suspect it would be useful for anyone with a Triumph keyless system to take note of this because the design of the keyfob will be almost certainly common across the brand and in which case, we can expect this to happen more often as indeed, it would appear that Xorbe fell victim to the same issue. If anyone is faced with this issue I would be tempted to address all the possible contact points. 1. Use a new battery and don't touch it to avoid getting any grease or contaminants on it. 2. Very gently tease upwards the three posative contact prongs that are part of the "contact strip" that rests on the printed circuit board and bend forward very slightly the two negative contact tabs. 3. Gently "massage" to and fro the contact strip and by moving it a little and then recentering on the pads, any oxidation or contaminants between the strip and the pcb pads should hopefully be removed and the quality of contact improved. I would caution against removing this for cleaning because I don't know how tightly it is sandwiched between the PCB and the case body and it is more than likely that having removed it, you may well not be able to get it back into position. In my case, I am certain this was the point at fault and a simple movement back and forth was all that was needed to improve the contact. Once again, thanks for your helpful hints and comments and to Xorbe of course particularly given my initial dismissiveness of his suggestion - he was quite correct!!!!
Simple and cost free fix in the end. Great result thanks to xorbe and now we are all fully aware of the fix if we encounter similar issues with the stupid Smart key
As an electronics design verification engineer, I hesitate to declare victory so quickly, just keep an eye on it for 3-4 weeks! I had to adjust my fob internals 2 or 3 times before it stopped giving me problems. Imho, because of the floating contact, it's probably just a matter of time until the issue repeats. I don't understand how Triumph is using this design year after year, apparently.
