You Cannot Take Them Seriously.

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Wire-Wheels, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    #1 Wire-Wheels, Jun 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    We are getting in to the hot season here in the south-western U.S. Now the news is that we are in danger of electrical blackouts this summer because their is not enough megawatts to go around. Funny. The same news feeds are telling us we all need to get rid of our polluting GASOLINE vehicles and buy new ELECTRIC ones ! What do these "great thinkers" think we are going to charge them with ?. Sounds more like a plot to sell a bunch of new vehicles to me. You cannot take these people seriously. My newest vehicle is a 2007. I have six. I do not need a NEW one. You can only drive one at a time. ...J.D.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Desert Yeti

    Desert Yeti Member

    Apr 8, 2021
    60
    18
    Mojave Desert
    It doesn't end with the power grid being vastly insufficient to provide power for electric (or even hybrid) automobiles, just wait for next environmental "crisis" when it's time to start disposing of the worn-out lithium batteries in the hybrids and electric cars currently on the road. Don't get me started on what lithium mines do to the environment, or the child labor in the cobalt mines in the Congo (cobalt being essential for use in anodes for lithium batteries); it's the "blood diamonds" travesty of this generation.

    Of course, this is all just an intermediate stage designed to lead-up to a push for an end to private vehicle ownership altogether, and forcing everyone into mass-transit (whether it exists in your area or not).

    A massive crash of the power grid may be just what we need to demonstrate to the eco-Nazis that their "green" initiatives are little more than unrealistic pipe dreams.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Oldskool

    Oldskool Elite Member

    Jan 29, 2019
    2,185
    800
    Hertfordshire
    Sounds like a great excuse not to go to work, when you wake up in the morning and the power has crashed. “Sorry I can’t get in this morning my car is out of power and we have no electric” . This is going to be a big problem. Hydrogen anyone……..
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    Yeah ! They are crying already about not having enough capacity. Hang a few billion car chargers on the system ! Dreamers just think "if we wish hard enough, it will happen". As a retired engineer I see a HUGE gap between the dream and reality. I could care less what the politicians and business blow hards are pushing. All they see are dollar signs. Yes. This CAN be done. But we are talking a few decades not a few years. ...J.D.
     
  5. andypandy

    andypandy Crème de la Crème

    Jan 10, 2016
    4,083
    1,000
    Shaw
    I've recently looked at pure electric cars and they're a non-starter for me. At the lower price range, say £30,000 you're looking at a realistic range of a hundred miles or so and a quick recharge time of five to ten hours. That's ok for doing the shopping but it aint going to get me to Scotland for a holiday. It would take several days and several hotels to get where we want to go.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  6. Rooster

    Rooster Grumpy Member
    Subscriber

    Sep 14, 2015
    1,639
    800
    Droitwich, Worcestershire
    And the ridiculous thing is, is that when we have all moved over to electric power the government will tax it so they get the same revenue they did from petrol/diesel.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    This is all being done in the name of "saving the planet". Seriously ? What about all the existing infrastructure, vehicles, and such that would be scrapped so they can sell us new ones ? I no longer buy new vehicles. I can, but when you look at the depreciation, the financing, and the percentage of your personal budget tied up in transportation it is a financial negative. Better for the planet and my finances to use up the vehicles already on the road. They may not run quite a clean or as efficiently, but let's use what we have already built before we build more. By doing this the last 8-10 years I have been financially better off. ...J.D.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    2,937
    800
    Yorkshire
    #8 Pegscraper, Jun 14, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
    The latest Audi EV, The Rs Etron GT starts at £111k and is, by all accounts, one of the most "sorted' fully electric cars yet (I should hope so!) but still has range and charge time limitations, especially at home charging on a domestic 240v supply. Apparently, a new Euro 7 emmisions target is coming into force by 2026 which all new ICE vehicles must meet and is very difficult and very expensive to achieve. Are manufacturers really going to spend loads more £££ and R&D time on engines that will be banned 4 years later? Of course not so that's another nail in the coffin for petrol/diesel. The availabilty of suitable charge points, the range, the charge times and the rate at which they're progressing are the things that will delay the all electric revolution. I just hope it is delayed long enough to see me out.
     
  9. Cyborgbot

    Cyborgbot Guest

    Buying a Teslar is giving a dollar to Elon Musk. I’d personally rather become a vegan.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
    I can't wait to get my first EV, currently using two cars and one will prob be an EV when that's swapped for a new one.
    90-95% of my journeys are not further than 100km a day so I will manage that fairly easy with a EV. The bigger car will still be petrol for some time as I need a tow bar. And I simply don't have money or parking space to charge 2 cars at the same time.

    When it comes to mining Lithium or Cobolt its interesting to see how many that has started to care for the kids mining it and taking a sudden interest to child labour. Have a look at most of the things around you, what you wear and what you eat or the gadgets with batteries you use. Most of it prob has some sort of child labour or slavery involved in the manufacturing process. It doesn't make it right of course, but I doubt any will give up their cellphones or laptops.
    There are sustainable and responsible Cobolt mining going on, but I think customers need to be informed of where (if possible) the minerals of the "gadget" you are buying are from. That's when we can make a better choice.

    If you look into the amount of power and polution it takes to make petrol or diesel its is a lot. That doesn't help a shitty grid that's been neglected for years due to taxcuts or companies ignoring to invest in it. But its something many countries would have need to invest in anyway.

    I don't have a problem with EV, in fact after you have driven one most do love them. Its not a petrol car or sound like one. But as with bikes, they all have their pros and cons.

    I am absolutely certain we will have ICE cars and motorcycles 2030, but hopefully there will be a lot less, and the bigger mass that doesn't get a stiffie when a Triple roar down the street will be happy with their EV cars.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
    Vegan isn't a bad choice after all, prob a better choice than buying an EV to try and save the planet.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
    Of course they will, and why shouldn't they?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    The suitability of EV' s depends on the local infrastructure and personal circumstances. Here in the American South-West we have a lot of miles to cover and the local electrical grid is stressed to the max already. Also electric power is quite expensive here. In other places in the world I might look at it differently. ...J.D.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
    I agree, its very country specific. And prob very regional within countries too.
    Looking at where I am from the cold up north and long distances some people drive makes todays EV not a viable option. Sure they can get a Tesla but they aren't cheap.

    I think many of the developing countries have interesting solutions where we can might find some inspiration. All from distributed vs centralized power distribution, new tech where we can "share" energy to local storage of energy when needed.

    The way we distribute power today (and has done for 100 years) might not always be the optimal way.
     
  15. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
  16. Rooster

    Rooster Grumpy Member
    Subscriber

    Sep 14, 2015
    1,639
    800
    Droitwich, Worcestershire
    it’s not that they shouldn’t, it’s more about ev’s being advertised as low cost to run. Which of course they won’t be in the long run. We’ve been here before when the government encouraged us to buy diesel cars then gradually increased the fuel tax to a lot more than petrol and eventually declared diesel emissions harmful.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. SuperHans

    SuperHans Senior Member

    Mar 11, 2020
    297
    113
    Sweden
    Its the dealers that talk about "low cost to run", and I think everyone knows that the taxmoney is needed.

    We had the same thing here in Sweden regarding the diesel, extreme taxcuts on car tax over night when we had a new government if you got a diesel which was bonkers cuz we had invested so much money in CNG.
    Everyone knows diesel has harmful emissions, but all focus was at CO2 at that point. That people die from the other stuff that's coming of of the exhaust-pipe wasn't interesting.
    And I guess VW and the rest of the car manufacturers tricked many governments pretty badly when it comes to diesel and how incredibly environmental-friendly it was. A shame they weren't fined even harder.

    Dieselgate - what a scandal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Wire-Wheels

    Wire-Wheels Elite Member

    Apr 26, 2019
    2,481
    800
    California - USA
    #18 Wire-Wheels, Jun 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
    The myth that plug-in vehicles are cheap or free to operate persists here in the U.S. too. Depends on where in the country you are, but in Southern California electricity is VERY expensive. Electric vehicles are not real popular here, but you see some. Where I live it would just not be practical. The local power companies want you to go to solar panels on our homes. But you cannot charge your car AT NIGHT on solar. They also are implementing a tiered rate billing system that raises the night electric rates when solar is not available. .I opted out of it for now, but we may not have that option in the future. ...J.D.
     
  19. Jet City

    Jet City Noble Member
    Subscriber

    Sep 24, 2018
    520
    343
    Seattle, Washington USA
    First of all, I love you guys and I love your skepticism.

    For a look at some facts, I’d recommend the Wall Street Journal’s article on the economics of electric cars. Summary: For the first 20,000 miles (32,000 km), ICE cars make more sense. The cost of construction, the cost of energy, the overall environmental impact.

    But after that electric wins. Even after you’ve factored in the environmental cost of the batteries and the cradle to grave impacts.

    So that’s where we are headed like it or not. We are all gonna go electric eventually, and the grids will be beefed up to suit.
     
  20. Golgotha

    Golgotha Guest

    Most enviromental crusaders ignore the fact that the electricity used to charge up their Teslas still originates at a powerplant generated by turbines running on fossil fuels. 95+% of them, anyway.

    Personally, I miss the days of sarcastic presidential tweets, gas @ around 2 buck a gallon, and affordable sheets of plywood.

    YMMV.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Loading...

Share This Page