I see no irony. Freedom is about the ability to exercise choice under laws that enjoy democratic legitimacy. In my opinion the Covid pandemic has been a pretty toxic mix of cock up, cover up and conspiracy by a few bad actors exploiting things for profit - political and financial. I applaud the Manchester students (adults by the way) for ripping down barriers and anyone opposing this new authoritarianism that is utterly unjustified by the actual and fast diminishing risk. Can you believe a nominally Conservative Government is banning protests by more than 2 people? To hell with that.......
Each to their own. For me I find it hard to believe the world leaders are hell bent on recking the world economy. The number of deaths are for me frightening and anything that society can do to reduce it has got to be good..
I don’t personally give The Great Reset too much credibility but it is not too hard to paint a scenario in which China spoofs the pandemic severity for its own purposes. Western leaders scramble up trees in panic as a herd and are then left wondering how to climb down without losing face/credibility. Big Pharma says ‘we can help’ and the vaccine fig leaf is born. We should be grateful..... However, ‘the science’ is peddled by people who won’t explain their workings, just their results..... nor will they debate. Meanwhile real evidence and experience gives the lie to their wild exaggerations and laughable forecasts. Imperial College is itself in bed with plenty of Chinese interests......so is unlikely to be critical of Chines ‘science’ and ‘data’.
Double irony. Double irony. On one side of the botty you say 'Freedom is about the ability to exercise choice under laws that enjoy democratic legitimacy' and then within a perineum's breadth state 'I applaud the Manchester students (adults by the way) for ripping down barriers and anyone opposing this new authoritarianism..........'. I find it hilarious that you don't see that behaviour as 'breaking the law'. Ignoring our personal views for a moment, the lockdowns are, whether we like it or not, law and we have a responsibility to the vulnerable to respect those laws. But that presupposes that you value the greater good rather than your self interests. Whether we need to shut down all businesses is a different question but I see it as a government (any government) struggling to cope with an unprecedented situation and not a conspiracy to undermine the working class.
The irony here is that you unwittingly legitimise unlawful containment. No doubt you think the crass, heavy handed policing of recent weeks is warranted - unless you are protesting French establishments?
This Lockdown is utter folly whatever Johnson, Starmer, Sturgeon and the Welsh Idiot’s blushes say..... Tack the khaki line on the end of the blue one for the complete sequence rather than comparative blip. Google epidemics and Gompertz curve. The truth is deeply inconvenient to our political masters who have massively cocked up and are manipulating through baseless fear.
I don’t believe your conspiracy theory, so I guess not a lot of point in perusing that debate. We can argue until the cows come home and not agree On the law; at the moment the law has been changed to ensure people follow government guidelines regarding the virus control. If people choose to break those rules/laws (like them or not), then they can expect the police to do there job and police them. All the complaining in the world is not going to change it❤️
I don’t believe I recall advancing a conspiracy theory. That would require a degree of coordination beyond Johnson & Co’s capabilities. Law breaking? An interesting philosophical issue...... it all depends on ‘which law’ . The students were removing barriers erected on private land by university authorities so it was a civil matter, not criminal unless it amounted to criminal damage. Given their unlawful (not illegal but unsupported by law) containment that would probably have been thrown out. Our rights of protest are enshrined in Common Law. You should read Lord Sumption, a former Law Lord, on the legal defects in current rules.
@Thripster you have been awarded quote of the month for “and then within a perineum's breadth” How I chuckled!!!
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november Unless those people were assembling under any of the criteria stipulated in the 'New National Restrictions' attached above, they are breaking the law. There is no more to be said so I am off.
I think we are at crossed wires here. My comments were related to the protesters in Manchester on Sunday, which was Remembrance Day and not the students pulling down barriers.
No doubt some Germans thought the same about the same about Jews being required to wear the Star of David...... These regulations have been conjured up under Public Health legislation not Civil Emergency law for the very political convenience of so doing. We have been encouraged to snitch on our neighbours. However I am encouraged to hear you are complying in every detail with every minutiae of the regulations. You will be part of a fast dwindling band.
Fair enough. If you want laws respecting they need to enjoy legitimacy. My earlier point about freedom applies. Politicians have given themselves extraordinary powers and we should be wary of the way that authority is used or abused and democracy otherwise imperilled. Protest is just that. Politicians (& police) need reminding who works for whom. In the Services we were always emphatic we worked for The Crown (you) we just took day to day instructions from the Government of the day.
I could not agree more. I find it hugely worrying that so many people are seemingly willing to discard their freedom, and even more so that they don't tollerate anyone else questioning the loss of that freedom and the ever increasing authoritarianism.
Agree Mr B but don't agree that you should break the law to voice your opposition (and more importantly, risk the vulnerable and the police).
I also served in the British Armed Forces, so well understand who I worked for during that time . Your point regarding freedom and the right to protest is well made. However, at the moment the vast majority of the great british people are in the main supporting the government guidelines in managing the virus. There is a small minority that are protesting about them and that is their right, but if that protest breaks the law, then they have to expect the consequences. I don't think comparing the current staus in our country with those applied in Germany during the 30 & 40's is valid, but you are entitled to your view. Until the balance is tipped and more people believe that their freedon and rights have been abused and take to the streets, these minority protest are just that.
It seems to me you have failed to notice two things: 1. That whatever the official forecast (future) all the available evidence (immediate past and historical precedent) shows the pandemic is over. It has become endemic where we live with occasional spikes. Forget linear waves on the beach. This is just the normal restless movement of the surface of the sea of seasonal pathogens. 2. Protests of more than 2 people have been made illegal by pretty much diktat. That, for me, changes the entire balance between governors and governed.
Are they? This is the most porous lockdown yet and support is draining if traffic is any indicator. Consent and evade?
I don't think that anybody is demostrating intollerance to your view, just offering an opposing one...
